Rudyard Griffiths

The effects of inflation translate to political crisis around issues of affordability, which in the past seemed to have metastasized into populism.

Right.

So I'm just concerned here increasingly, Janice, that this standoff over the Straits of Hormuz, if it goes even on for a couple more weeks— It will.

It will.

We will start to see physical oil, not maybe the futures market, but physical oil at $150, approaching $200 a barrel.

I mean, that is, again, what the International Energy Agency is saying is the single largest energy shock that the modern world has ever faced.

This is really serious stuff, I guess.

And I feel like we're all kind of on the deck chairs of the Titanic, you know, measuring the respective spacing between the first row and the fourth row.

Well, in a way, because you've been so good on this.

And first, you know, there was a wave of populism after the great financial crisis, especially in Europe.

And then I remember you and I talking when we started this podcast five years ago and we were saying, oh, it seems like that wave is crested and it was abating.

Then we had the pandemic.

Then we had another wave of inflation different than the financial crisis, not a deflationary de-risking instead.

A different kind of populist response emerged out of that.

I mean, can we go three rounds, Janice?

What's the breaking point?

It killed the Biden presidency.

It killed the Biden presidency.

And now isn't there a certain irony that it's now coming for the Trump presidency?

I mean, you bring a lot of wisdom here, which is including living through the 70s, through that inflationary push and then the Volcker Central Bank that had to, I believe at one point, Janice, interest rates were almost as high as 20%.