Rutger Bregman

And I think too often on the left side of the political spectrum, we see this obsession with moral purity and then also a certain kind of political irrelevance, right? What it really takes to change the world is to build a coalition, right? All these great movements, the abolitionists, the civil right campaigners, they were coalitions of people who very often didn't agree with one another. Right.

And I think too often on the left side of the political spectrum, we see this obsession with moral purity and then also a certain kind of political irrelevance, right? What it really takes to change the world is to build a coalition, right? All these great movements, the abolitionists, the civil right campaigners, they were coalitions of people who very often didn't agree with one another. Right.

So I guess that's one of the pieces of advice I have here is if people agree with you for 80% of their time, they're not your enemy, but they're your ally.

So I guess that's one of the pieces of advice I have here is if people agree with you for 80% of their time, they're not your enemy, but they're your ally.

On the other hand, we have huge amounts of people, educated elites, you know, who went to nice universities, who have fancy resumes. If they go on strike, very often not all that much happens. You know, I've got one study in the book from two Dutch economists, actually.

On the other hand, we have huge amounts of people, educated elites, you know, who went to nice universities, who have fancy resumes. If they go on strike, very often not all that much happens. You know, I've got one study in the book from two Dutch economists, actually.

They studied 40 countries and found that around 25 percent of people in the modern workforce think that their own job is socially meaningless. These are, by the way, mostly people. Wait, how many? 25 percent. Yeah.

They studied 40 countries and found that around 25 percent of people in the modern workforce think that their own job is socially meaningless. These are, by the way, mostly people. Wait, how many? 25 percent. Yeah.

Well, it's quite a lot, John. It's five times the unemployment rate. Is it really? Yeah, yeah. One out of four jobs. Yeah, exactly. And these people, I mean, last week I was at Harvard. Well, look at you. It's an interesting example where you meet a lot of bright young students, right, who are generally idealistic.

Well, it's quite a lot, John. It's five times the unemployment rate. Is it really? Yeah, yeah. One out of four jobs. Yeah, exactly. And these people, I mean, last week I was at Harvard. Well, look at you. It's an interesting example where you meet a lot of bright young students, right, who are generally idealistic.

But then at the same time, you know that about half of them will end up in what a friend of mine calls the Bermuda Triangle of talent. So you've got consultancy, you've got corporate law, you've got finance, this gaping black hole that sucks up so many talented people who should actually work on these big problems. So look, I am not here to preach at people already in those essential jobs.

But then at the same time, you know that about half of them will end up in what a friend of mine calls the Bermuda Triangle of talent. So you've got consultancy, you've got corporate law, you've got finance, this gaping black hole that sucks up so many talented people who should actually work on these big problems. So look, I am not here to preach at people already in those essential jobs.

I am actually preaching at sort of my own people because I'm quite angry at them.

I am actually preaching at sort of my own people because I'm quite angry at them.

People, you know, who went to university, who had some education, you know, who feel this responsibility to use their skill set to make a difference.

People, you know, who went to university, who had some education, you know, who feel this responsibility to use their skill set to make a difference.

There are places in history. I mean... Was that depressing? This actually gives me hope. This is what's so great about my job. In the book, I talk a lot about the British abolitionists. They were the most successful abolitionists. They built this huge movement in the late 18th century. And they considered their project to be part of a bit of a cultural revolution.

There are places in history. I mean... Was that depressing? This actually gives me hope. This is what's so great about my job. In the book, I talk a lot about the British abolitionists. They were the most successful abolitionists. They built this huge movement in the late 18th century. And they considered their project to be part of a bit of a cultural revolution.

They wanted to make doing good fashionable once again. What really fascinated me about them is that they were mostly entrepreneurs. So 10 out of 12 of the founders of the British Society for the Abolition of the Slave Trade, they were entrepreneurs. who had built their own companies, who had skilled them. They knew how to get things done.

They wanted to make doing good fashionable once again. What really fascinated me about them is that they were mostly entrepreneurs. So 10 out of 12 of the founders of the British Society for the Abolition of the Slave Trade, they were entrepreneurs. who had built their own companies, who had skilled them. They knew how to get things done.