Rutger Bregman

And I thought that was very convincing, just by looking at the numbers. Because, like... The total number of people who ever lived is estimated at 117 billion. The total number of animals that we slaughter every year is 80 billion. So it takes us just a year and a half to slaughter as many animals as the amount of people that ever lived.

And I thought that was very convincing, just by looking at the numbers. Because, like... The total number of people who ever lived is estimated at 117 billion. The total number of animals that we slaughter every year is 80 billion. So it takes us just a year and a half to slaughter as many animals as the amount of people that ever lived.

And then if you look at the latest science, like every other week, there's a new paper coming out about how sentient, how sensitive, how intelligent chickens are, cows are. And I also felt so ignorant once I started digging into it. Like, for example, the fact that cows give milk. I was like, yeah, cows give milk. That's what they do. Well, actually, they have to be pregnant every year.

And then if you look at the latest science, like every other week, there's a new paper coming out about how sentient, how sensitive, how intelligent chickens are, cows are. And I also felt so ignorant once I started digging into it. Like, for example, the fact that cows give milk. I was like, yeah, cows give milk. That's what they do. Well, actually, they have to be pregnant every year.

They have to be pregnant, basically. And then we take away all these calves, which is like... a product that we very often can't use. So we, we abuse those calves in a terrible way as well. Yeah.

They have to be pregnant, basically. And then we take away all these calves, which is like... a product that we very often can't use. So we, we abuse those calves in a terrible way as well. Yeah.

So there's a famous philosopher, Jeremy Bentham, in the late 18th century who already made the point. It's not about how smart animals are. It's not about can they talk, can they reason. It's about can they suffer. I like that. That's the essential point. There was a recent scientific committee who published this big report about when you cook crabs alive, well, they suffer immensely, right? Yeah.

So there's a famous philosopher, Jeremy Bentham, in the late 18th century who already made the point. It's not about how smart animals are. It's not about can they talk, can they reason. It's about can they suffer. I like that. That's the essential point. There was a recent scientific committee who published this big report about when you cook crabs alive, well, they suffer immensely, right? Yeah.

I think that matters. Look, I'm not fundamentally against eating meat. Not at all. What I'm against is factory farming. And I think it's really important to acknowledge as a consumer in the world today is that, what is it, 95, 98% of all meat comes from factory farms.

I think that matters. Look, I'm not fundamentally against eating meat. Not at all. What I'm against is factory farming. And I think it's really important to acknowledge as a consumer in the world today is that, what is it, 95, 98% of all meat comes from factory farms.

So if you say, well, I'm radically going to cut down the amount of meat I eat, you know, I'm just going to eat meat that was hunted or something like that, or that was really raised in an ethical way. I mean, that's fine. But then please also acknowledge that you will have to eat 5% as much or something.

So if you say, well, I'm radically going to cut down the amount of meat I eat, you know, I'm just going to eat meat that was hunted or something like that, or that was really raised in an ethical way. I mean, that's fine. But then please also acknowledge that you will have to eat 5% as much or something.

Oh, absolutely. You know, I'm a pretty old fashioned European social Democrat. So I think that sometimes some tasks are best done by the government, sometimes by civil society and sometimes by markets, right? I wouldn't want the government to try and invent an iPhone and to market it to customers. You know, they're probably going to be really bad at it. Just look at the Soviet Union.

Oh, absolutely. You know, I'm a pretty old fashioned European social Democrat. So I think that sometimes some tasks are best done by the government, sometimes by civil society and sometimes by markets, right? I wouldn't want the government to try and invent an iPhone and to market it to customers. You know, they're probably going to be really bad at it. Just look at the Soviet Union.

So actually one thing I like about having moved to the United States is that, yeah, some cliches are really true. There's a much more entrepreneurial culture here. So a couple of my friends launched this journalism platform in Amsterdam a decade ago, and they had this night where they presented the plan, right? We want to revolutionize journalism.

So actually one thing I like about having moved to the United States is that, yeah, some cliches are really true. There's a much more entrepreneurial culture here. So a couple of my friends launched this journalism platform in Amsterdam a decade ago, and they had this night where they presented the plan, right? We want to revolutionize journalism.

We want to really change it, not focus on all the bad news, but focus on the structural important things. And what happens in the Netherlands, if you pitch something new like that, you know, like 90% of the people there will say, ah, is that going to work? Ah, probably don't bother. And then if it doesn't work, then they're like, I see you told you so.

We want to really change it, not focus on all the bad news, but focus on the structural important things. And what happens in the Netherlands, if you pitch something new like that, you know, like 90% of the people there will say, ah, is that going to work? Ah, probably don't bother. And then if it doesn't work, then they're like, I see you told you so.

I recently had a dinner like that here in New York where someone invited me to talk to a bunch of journalists and entrepreneurs and blah, blah, blah. And I say, well, I have this idea for starting an organization that helps as many talented people as possible to work on the most pressing issues of our time. And I was like, yeah, absolutely. That's going to work.

I recently had a dinner like that here in New York where someone invited me to talk to a bunch of journalists and entrepreneurs and blah, blah, blah. And I say, well, I have this idea for starting an organization that helps as many talented people as possible to work on the most pressing issues of our time. And I was like, yeah, absolutely. That's going to work.