Rutger Bregman

Yeah, you're going to build this huge global movement of ambitious idealists. And I can't see why it's not going to work. Go you. And actually, if you're building something new, if you're trying something new, That is really what you want. Yeah, you want that push in the back. That's what you want. Exactly.

Yeah, you're going to build this huge global movement of ambitious idealists. And I can't see why it's not going to work. Go you. And actually, if you're building something new, if you're trying something new, That is really what you want. Yeah, you want that push in the back. That's what you want. Exactly.

So no, I'm not like... This whole debate about socialism versus capitalism, it's like a dichotomy that doesn't exist. Sweden is a capitalist country, right? Denmark is capitalist. It's like... You can be a pluralist. You can have rules. You can have a flourishing economy where billionaires actually pay their taxes.

So no, I'm not like... This whole debate about socialism versus capitalism, it's like a dichotomy that doesn't exist. Sweden is a capitalist country, right? Denmark is capitalist. It's like... You can be a pluralist. You can have rules. You can have a flourishing economy where billionaires actually pay their taxes.

And the fact that we think we have to choose between either or, that it's either Elon Musk paying very little in taxes, taking over the government, or the Netherlands or Denmark where you can fall asleep on the street and it's very hard to be an entrepreneur. There's something in the middle, probably.

And the fact that we think we have to choose between either or, that it's either Elon Musk paying very little in taxes, taking over the government, or the Netherlands or Denmark where you can fall asleep on the street and it's very hard to be an entrepreneur. There's something in the middle, probably.

Okay, let me try and find a way to get back to Davos because I'm actually going to say something nice about billionaires. Oh, here we go. I don't think I've ever done that on a podcast, but here I go. So I was studying the history of malaria, as you may have noticed. I know we recently developed these amazing vaccines for the first time in history. We've got them.

Okay, let me try and find a way to get back to Davos because I'm actually going to say something nice about billionaires. Oh, here we go. I don't think I've ever done that on a podcast, but here I go. So I was studying the history of malaria, as you may have noticed. I know we recently developed these amazing vaccines for the first time in history. We've got them.

This has been one of the most deadliest diseases in all of world history. And it took us decades and decades to finally get the vaccine. And I was wondering, why did it take so long? It turns out that actually in the early 80s, scientists already understood that we could develop a vaccine. The problem was that it was mostly poor people in poor countries who were dying from it, and a lot.

This has been one of the most deadliest diseases in all of world history. And it took us decades and decades to finally get the vaccine. And I was wondering, why did it take so long? It turns out that actually in the early 80s, scientists already understood that we could develop a vaccine. The problem was that it was mostly poor people in poor countries who were dying from it, and a lot.

So between 1980 and 2020, around 40 million people died from malaria, which is about as much as how many people died in Europe during the Second World War. And for HIV-AIDS, there was a massive movement in wealthy countries because also wealthy people were dying from HIV-AIDS. So we developed amazing medicines against that, but not for malaria. Yeah.

So between 1980 and 2020, around 40 million people died from malaria, which is about as much as how many people died in Europe during the Second World War. And for HIV-AIDS, there was a massive movement in wealthy countries because also wealthy people were dying from HIV-AIDS. So we developed amazing medicines against that, but not for malaria. Yeah.

The tragic thing and the embarrassing thing is that it took a tech billionaire, in this case Bill Gates, in the year 2000 to say, okay, well, let's actually finance the research that is necessary, that governments are not doing it. And also not like the liberal governments, like socialist government. Denmark wasn't doing it. The Netherlands wasn't doing it. And...

The tragic thing and the embarrassing thing is that it took a tech billionaire, in this case Bill Gates, in the year 2000 to say, okay, well, let's actually finance the research that is necessary, that governments are not doing it. And also not like the liberal governments, like socialist government. Denmark wasn't doing it. The Netherlands wasn't doing it. And...

I think that is something where sometimes philanthropy can play a role to do that stuff that is so neglected because it's so unpopular to do. And yeah, I think like someone like Bill Gates deserves an enormous amount of credit for it. He really changed the course of history in that respect. So, okay, that's it.

I think that is something where sometimes philanthropy can play a role to do that stuff that is so neglected because it's so unpopular to do. And yeah, I think like someone like Bill Gates deserves an enormous amount of credit for it. He really changed the course of history in that respect. So, okay, that's it.

So I guess one of the problems with Progressive these days is that they have all these rules of life that are basically about how you live your own personal life. So you're not supposed to fly. You're not supposed to eat meat. You're not supposed to have kids. You're not supposed to use plastic straws. And yeah, to really limit your environmental footprint.

So I guess one of the problems with Progressive these days is that they have all these rules of life that are basically about how you live your own personal life. So you're not supposed to fly. You're not supposed to eat meat. You're not supposed to have kids. You're not supposed to use plastic straws. And yeah, to really limit your environmental footprint.

I think the problem with that kind of reasoning is that in the best possible scenario, if you've done everything right, then you have an environmental footprint of zero and you might as well not have existed, right? So then death is the highest ideal. You might as well just kill yourself.

I think the problem with that kind of reasoning is that in the best possible scenario, if you've done everything right, then you have an environmental footprint of zero and you might as well not have existed, right? So then death is the highest ideal. You might as well just kill yourself.