Ryan Knudsen

Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.

Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.

Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.

Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Ryan Knudsen. It's Monday, February 24th. Coming up on the show, why the Trump administration wants Ukraine's minerals, and what it could mean for peace talks.

Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Ryan Knudsen. It's Monday, February 24th. Coming up on the show, why the Trump administration wants Ukraine's minerals, and what it could mean for peace talks.

Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Ryan Knudsen. It's Monday, February 24th. Coming up on the show, why the Trump administration wants Ukraine's minerals, and what it could mean for peace talks.

Today's the three-year anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Since the war began, Russia has killed tens of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers and civilians and raised dozens of cities. Tens of thousands of Russian soldiers have also died.

Today's the three-year anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Since the war began, Russia has killed tens of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers and civilians and raised dozens of cities. Tens of thousands of Russian soldiers have also died.

Today's the three-year anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Since the war began, Russia has killed tens of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers and civilians and raised dozens of cities. Tens of thousands of Russian soldiers have also died.

During the Biden administration, the U.S. sent billions of dollars in aid and military equipment, which helped Ukraine take back some territory and limit the gains of Russia's huge military.

During the Biden administration, the U.S. sent billions of dollars in aid and military equipment, which helped Ukraine take back some territory and limit the gains of Russia's huge military.

During the Biden administration, the U.S. sent billions of dollars in aid and military equipment, which helped Ukraine take back some territory and limit the gains of Russia's huge military.

Trump's relationship with Ukraine has been more rocky. It was a phone call between Zelensky and Trump that led to Trump's first impeachment back in 2019. During the 2024 presidential race, Trump campaigned on ending the war.

Trump's relationship with Ukraine has been more rocky. It was a phone call between Zelensky and Trump that led to Trump's first impeachment back in 2019. During the 2024 presidential race, Trump campaigned on ending the war.

Trump's relationship with Ukraine has been more rocky. It was a phone call between Zelensky and Trump that led to Trump's first impeachment back in 2019. During the 2024 presidential race, Trump campaigned on ending the war.

And he said he would do it fast.

And he said he would do it fast.

And he said he would do it fast.

The way Trump has gone about trying to end the war is very different than the Biden administration. Mainly, Trump has been trying to do it by putting a lot more pressure on Ukraine. And about two weeks ago, things really ramped up. The first thing that happened was that Trump had a 90-minute phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin, the first time a sitting U.S.

The way Trump has gone about trying to end the war is very different than the Biden administration. Mainly, Trump has been trying to do it by putting a lot more pressure on Ukraine. And about two weeks ago, things really ramped up. The first thing that happened was that Trump had a 90-minute phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin, the first time a sitting U.S.

The way Trump has gone about trying to end the war is very different than the Biden administration. Mainly, Trump has been trying to do it by putting a lot more pressure on Ukraine. And about two weeks ago, things really ramped up. The first thing that happened was that Trump had a 90-minute phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin, the first time a sitting U.S.

president spoke with Putin since the war. On the same day, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth told allies that Ukraine shouldn't expect to get all its territory back from Russia and that Ukraine should not be allowed to join NATO.

president spoke with Putin since the war. On the same day, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth told allies that Ukraine shouldn't expect to get all its territory back from Russia and that Ukraine should not be allowed to join NATO.

president spoke with Putin since the war. On the same day, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth told allies that Ukraine shouldn't expect to get all its territory back from Russia and that Ukraine should not be allowed to join NATO.

— That's our colleague James Marson, Ukraine bureau chief. This scene is based on a description from a U.S. Republican lawmaker who spoke with Zelensky a few days later. He demanded that Zelensky sign it.

— That's our colleague James Marson, Ukraine bureau chief. This scene is based on a description from a U.S. Republican lawmaker who spoke with Zelensky a few days later. He demanded that Zelensky sign it.

— That's our colleague James Marson, Ukraine bureau chief. This scene is based on a description from a U.S. Republican lawmaker who spoke with Zelensky a few days later. He demanded that Zelensky sign it.

A few days later, the Trump administration met with Russian envoys in Saudi Arabia to discuss a peace deal. Ukraine and its European allies weren't included. Zelensky denounced the talks and said he would not accept a peace deal if his country wasn't involved.

A few days later, the Trump administration met with Russian envoys in Saudi Arabia to discuss a peace deal. Ukraine and its European allies weren't included. Zelensky denounced the talks and said he would not accept a peace deal if his country wasn't involved.

A few days later, the Trump administration met with Russian envoys in Saudi Arabia to discuss a peace deal. Ukraine and its European allies weren't included. Zelensky denounced the talks and said he would not accept a peace deal if his country wasn't involved.

After this, Trump escalated attacks on Zelensky in Ukraine, saying that the democratically elected Zelensky was a dictator and that Ukraine, not Russia, started the war.

After this, Trump escalated attacks on Zelensky in Ukraine, saying that the democratically elected Zelensky was a dictator and that Ukraine, not Russia, started the war.

After this, Trump escalated attacks on Zelensky in Ukraine, saying that the democratically elected Zelensky was a dictator and that Ukraine, not Russia, started the war.

Let's talk about that minerals deal. What are the minerals? Why are they valuable, and why would President Trump want them?

Let's talk about that minerals deal. What are the minerals? Why are they valuable, and why would President Trump want them?

Let's talk about that minerals deal. What are the minerals? Why are they valuable, and why would President Trump want them?

— Right now, China dominates the market for most of these minerals. And as Trump escalates his trade war with China, finding new sources has become more important. The idea to do a deal with the U.S. over Ukraine's minerals was actually first brought up by Ukraine this past September, before Trump was elected.

— Right now, China dominates the market for most of these minerals. And as Trump escalates his trade war with China, finding new sources has become more important. The idea to do a deal with the U.S. over Ukraine's minerals was actually first brought up by Ukraine this past September, before Trump was elected.

— Right now, China dominates the market for most of these minerals. And as Trump escalates his trade war with China, finding new sources has become more important. The idea to do a deal with the U.S. over Ukraine's minerals was actually first brought up by Ukraine this past September, before Trump was elected.

Earlier this month, U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant flew to Ukraine. He was there to meet with the country's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. And there was something specific Besant wanted to talk with Zelensky about.

Earlier this month, U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant flew to Ukraine. He was there to meet with the country's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. And there was something specific Besant wanted to talk with Zelensky about.

Earlier this month, U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant flew to Ukraine. He was there to meet with the country's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. And there was something specific Besant wanted to talk with Zelensky about.

Ukraine's proposal didn't have specifics, and it's unclear how it evolved into Treasury Secretary Besant's offer. The thing is, many of these minerals haven't been mined yet, and an estimated 20 to 40% of them are in Russian-occupied parts of Ukraine. And even though Ukraine initially brought up the idea, Zelensky was still surprised when Besant pushed that piece of paper across the table.

Ukraine's proposal didn't have specifics, and it's unclear how it evolved into Treasury Secretary Besant's offer. The thing is, many of these minerals haven't been mined yet, and an estimated 20 to 40% of them are in Russian-occupied parts of Ukraine. And even though Ukraine initially brought up the idea, Zelensky was still surprised when Besant pushed that piece of paper across the table.

Ukraine's proposal didn't have specifics, and it's unclear how it evolved into Treasury Secretary Besant's offer. The thing is, many of these minerals haven't been mined yet, and an estimated 20 to 40% of them are in Russian-occupied parts of Ukraine. And even though Ukraine initially brought up the idea, Zelensky was still surprised when Besant pushed that piece of paper across the table.

So how did Zelensky respond to Besant's offer?

So how did Zelensky respond to Besant's offer?

So how did Zelensky respond to Besant's offer?

What it might take for Ukraine to agree is after the break. Despite Ukraine's reservations about a minerals deal with the U.S., deal talks intensified over the past few days. Still, there's a ways to go. At a press conference on Sunday, Zelensky said his country still needed better terms in order to move forward.

What it might take for Ukraine to agree is after the break. Despite Ukraine's reservations about a minerals deal with the U.S., deal talks intensified over the past few days. Still, there's a ways to go. At a press conference on Sunday, Zelensky said his country still needed better terms in order to move forward.

What it might take for Ukraine to agree is after the break. Despite Ukraine's reservations about a minerals deal with the U.S., deal talks intensified over the past few days. Still, there's a ways to go. At a press conference on Sunday, Zelensky said his country still needed better terms in order to move forward.

— The Trump administration was asking for the rights to hundreds of billions of dollars worth of Ukrainian mineral deposits. It says the minerals would repay the U.S. for its military and financial aid to Ukraine during the war. And now, the mineral rights have become a major focus for the Trump administration as it pushes to end the war.

— The Trump administration was asking for the rights to hundreds of billions of dollars worth of Ukrainian mineral deposits. It says the minerals would repay the U.S. for its military and financial aid to Ukraine during the war. And now, the mineral rights have become a major focus for the Trump administration as it pushes to end the war.

— The Trump administration was asking for the rights to hundreds of billions of dollars worth of Ukrainian mineral deposits. It says the minerals would repay the U.S. for its military and financial aid to Ukraine during the war. And now, the mineral rights have become a major focus for the Trump administration as it pushes to end the war.

Zelensky also said that the current U.S. offer demanded ruinous financial contributions and said, quote, I don't want something that 10 generations of Ukrainians will have to pay back. U.S.

Zelensky also said that the current U.S. offer demanded ruinous financial contributions and said, quote, I don't want something that 10 generations of Ukrainians will have to pay back. U.S.

Zelensky also said that the current U.S. offer demanded ruinous financial contributions and said, quote, I don't want something that 10 generations of Ukrainians will have to pay back. U.S.

Russia has taken note of the minerals dispute and has started making references to it. Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said recently that the minerals were a reason Russia should not withdraw from occupied parts of Ukraine.

Russia has taken note of the minerals dispute and has started making references to it. Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said recently that the minerals were a reason Russia should not withdraw from occupied parts of Ukraine.

Russia has taken note of the minerals dispute and has started making references to it. Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said recently that the minerals were a reason Russia should not withdraw from occupied parts of Ukraine.

In other words, the Ukrainians aren't the only ones who have something to offer Trump when it comes to minerals. The U.S. has been such an important ally to Ukraine, so is it risky for Zelensky not to go along with this and to risk upsetting the Trump administration?

In other words, the Ukrainians aren't the only ones who have something to offer Trump when it comes to minerals. The U.S. has been such an important ally to Ukraine, so is it risky for Zelensky not to go along with this and to risk upsetting the Trump administration?

In other words, the Ukrainians aren't the only ones who have something to offer Trump when it comes to minerals. The U.S. has been such an important ally to Ukraine, so is it risky for Zelensky not to go along with this and to risk upsetting the Trump administration?

James says a lot depends on what Trump wants from Ukraine.

James says a lot depends on what Trump wants from Ukraine.

James says a lot depends on what Trump wants from Ukraine.

So what does this signal about the way peace talks might unfold?

So what does this signal about the way peace talks might unfold?

So what does this signal about the way peace talks might unfold?

It seems like this is a reflection of how Trump views America's role in the world, which is to be transactional, to do deals with different countries that are in America's interest or not.

It seems like this is a reflection of how Trump views America's role in the world, which is to be transactional, to do deals with different countries that are in America's interest or not.

It seems like this is a reflection of how Trump views America's role in the world, which is to be transactional, to do deals with different countries that are in America's interest or not.

On Monday, Ukrainian officials suggested that the deal is moving in a more positive direction. At a press conference, President Trump said a deal was very close, in what form is not yet clear. That's all for today, Monday, February 24th. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode by Alexander Ward, Alan Cullison, Ian Lovett.

On Monday, Ukrainian officials suggested that the deal is moving in a more positive direction. At a press conference, President Trump said a deal was very close, in what form is not yet clear. That's all for today, Monday, February 24th. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode by Alexander Ward, Alan Cullison, Ian Lovett.

On Monday, Ukrainian officials suggested that the deal is moving in a more positive direction. At a press conference, President Trump said a deal was very close, in what form is not yet clear. That's all for today, Monday, February 24th. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. Additional reporting in this episode by Alexander Ward, Alan Cullison, Ian Lovett.