Sabrina Tavernisi

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily.

So if you can't cut the sheep improvement center from the federal budget, you're probably not going to be able to cut a big hunk out of, say, Veterans Affairs.

And it's presumably much harder if you're an outsider and not an insider who knows how Congress works.

So it's very hard to cut government programs. You have shown that amply. But beyond the programs, what about cutting the federal workforce itself?

Right. So you're maybe following your political agenda, but you're not really doing the main work, which is making government more efficient.

Okay, so bottom line, very difficult to make cuts anywhere near the scale that Musk is talking about. Cutting the budget and even the size of the federal workforce will be very hard. But what about this idea of reducing government regulation?

Right, and they don't have to defer to the federal government.

So their central argument of how they're going to pull off this efficiency thing kind of doesn't hold water.

And of course, do they even agree among themselves on all of this stuff? I mean, as you've described here, it doesn't sound like they're all going to be rowing in the same direction.

But as you said, we do have a budget deficit crisis. The country could benefit from addressing it.

So given all of that, David, what's the best case scenario here? I mean, in terms of what Doge might actually get done?

So basically, very, very big promises. But, you know, to be kind of real about this, I think anyone who stood in line that DMV could get behind the idea that a more efficient government, as they say that they want to make, makes sense. I mean, you know, efficiency is a hard concept to argue with, right?

In other words, this just becomes another chapter in the government's struggle to contain the problem.

David, thank you.

We'll be right back. Here's what else you should know today. South Korea, one of America's closest allies in Asia, descended into political chaos on Tuesday after its president, Yoon Suk-yeol, imposed martial law. And then, just hours later, the country's National Assembly, in a swift rebuke to the president, voted to lift it.

Yoon, a deeply unpopular and divisive leader, accused the opposition of, quote, trying to overthrow democracy. It was the first time a South Korean president had declared martial law since the military dictatorship ended in the country in the late 1980s. The move drew peaceful protests in Seoul, the capital, and over the course of a tense night, eventually backfired.

Before the sun rose on Wednesday morning, the president had backed down and rescinded his martial law declaration. And Donald Trump's transition team announced that it had belatedly signed an agreement with the Department of Justice that will allow the FBI to conduct background checks on people Trump intends to appoint as senior officials in his new administration.

FBI background checks have long been a routine part of transitions. But Trump, who is hostile to the FBI because of its role in various criminal and counterintelligence investigations into him, had let weeks pass without signing the agreement. Today's episode was produced by Eric Krupke, Rob Zipko, and Asa Chaturvedi. It was edited by M.J.

Davis-Lynn and Michael Benoit, with help from Paige Cowett. Contains original music by Marian Lozano and Rowan Nemisto. And was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Lansford of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you tomorrow.

Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy have called the federal bureaucracy a, quote, existential threat to our republic.

Right. Like, how do these two people take the private sector idea of efficiency of this process engineering and map it on to the federal government? There are, of course, risks to this, right? I mean, if you make a mistake at Twitter and it goes offline for a day, not really that big of a deal. But if you do it with air traffic controllers, planes could collide. So what's the plan here?

Now, President-elect Trump is empowering them to drastically shrink it by whatever means necessary.

Which is kind of a little rich. I mean, power back to the people. It's basically to them, right? So power back to the business people.

Right. OK, so what are they actually saying? What are they going to do?

So the power of the federal government is kind of present there because the court defers to what the federal agency says the rule is. But SCOTUS changed that in the past few terms.

Today, my colleague David Fahrenthold examines their plans and what it would look like if they actually carried them out. It's Wednesday, December 4th. So, David, you've been doing some reporting on plans by Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy to cut government to the tune of $2 trillion. You're trying to understand exactly what this effort is and how it would work. Tell me what you're finding.

So basically their argument is that they have this magic wand that they can just wave and stop enforcing federal regulations. What else do they say they're going to do?

Got it.

Okay, so it sounds like an op-ed, right? Here's how I'll cut the federal government in five easy steps. It'll be so quick, so easy. Okay.

We'll be right back. So David, you said that many past presidential administrations have tried but failed to do what Doge is attempting. Tell me about the obstacles that these two are likely to run into.

So, OK, a third of the federal budget already off limits.

Nor presumably would Musk want to cut contracts that he himself receives from the federal government. That is also part of this. So what else are we talking about here that's off limits?

Okay, so more than half of the budget is essentially off limits right off the bat. What does that leave for this Department of Government Efficiency to actually cut?

And a cryptocurrency, apparently.

What's an example?

Sheep, as in sheep the animal.

Definitely seems non-essential.

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily. This week, President Donald Trump made one of the most audacious moves since he took office, freezing trillions of dollars in federal money, everything from anti-poverty programs to foreign aid, in order to purge the government of what he called woke ideology.

And you said they already mentioned that they were ready for this to go all the way up to the Supreme Court. Might it go that far? And what do you think will happen if it does?

And do we have a sense of how the Supreme Court might rule?

Right. Yeah. I mean, I guess it raises the question, though, you know, if the memo isn't really likely to survive a court challenge ultimately, if it goes away in a matter of days or weeks, the Trump administration presumably would have seen that coming. So what was the point of all of this? What were they actually up to? Yeah.

Mike, as we prepared for a potential second Trump administration, reporting really suggested that Trump 2.0 was going to be very different than Trump 1.0. It would be more organized. It would be more effective. You know, Trump knows how the government works now. He has lawyers who have executive orders written ready to go.

But this memo today and the chaos it sparked would seem to kind of undercut that idea. So how do you make sense of that?

And the question is, will the institutions hold?

Mike, thank you.

Here's what else you should know today. President Trump moved toward pushing transgender people out of the military by telling the Pentagon that anyone who openly identified that way should be seen as having an impediment to the physical and mental well-being necessary for military service.

While the order did not immediately exclude anyone from the military, it gave the Pentagon 60 days to update its policy on medical standards and 30 days to come forward with revised guidance on how to implement Trump's vision. And also on Tuesday, the Trump administration offered roughly 2 million federal workers the option to resign and still be paid through the end of September.

The message came in the form of an email from the Office of Personnel Management, which oversees the federal workforce. It had the subject line, fork in the road, and said that a majority of federal agencies would probably be downsized and that a substantial number of employees would be furloughed or reclassified to a status that would make them easier to fire.

The effort was meant to reduce the size of the federal workforce and to help push out people who do not support President Trump's political agenda. Today's episode was produced by Rob Zipko and Will Reed, with help from Sidney Harper, Carlos Prieto, and Michael Simon Johnson. It was edited by M.J.

Davis-Lynn, contains original music by Dan Powell and Marion Lozano, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you tomorrow.

Okay, so basically the memo is saying all these federal funds go out to all of these programs all over the country. They need to be put on hold to make sure that none of them are actually at odds with the administration's agenda. Right.

So exactly how does the memo propose that this is going to work?

So which programs exactly will be affected here? What do we know about that?

Today, my colleague, White House reporter Mike Scheer, on that order, the chaos that it prompted, and whether it is likely to survive in court. It's Wednesday, January 29th. So, Mike, President Trump has done something pretty remarkable. All of Washington, where you are right now, is talking about it.

Okay, so this memo, as you say, is quite a bombshell in Washington. What happens next?

How should we make sense of that disconnect? I mean, the White House is saying Medicaid not affected, but Medicaid clearly was affected. I mean, was the White House just not being forthcoming?

point, what are those thousands upon thousands of organizations and grantees saying? What's happening over the course of the day?

Right, so it sounds like mass confusion is at least the bare minimum of what was happening.

So, Mike, tell us about the fights that have been brewing over this order since it was issued.

I'm wondering if you can lay out for listeners exactly what he did and what's unfolded in the days since.

Okay, so you did have these legal challenges coming out pretty much right away. What were they arguing exactly?

So, in other words, the argument is Trump and the executive branch can't just suddenly take on a power that's always belonged to Congress.

I do not know what that is.

And Mike, what does the Trump administration say to these kinds of arguments that what he's doing here is illegal?

So, Mike, we are talking at about 630 p.m. on Tuesday, and we already have some updates on these lawsuits. Tell us how the lawsuits have started to make their way through the legal system.

So does that mean a full pause on this entire effort?

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily. Overnight, Israel agreed to a ceasefire with the Lebanese armed group Hezbollah, a major turning point in one of the wars Israel has been fighting since Hamas attacked it on October 7th. But the war in Gaza shows no signs of ending, with Israel coming under increased scrutiny for the way it is conducting it.

Natan, at a high level, it seems like what your reporting shows, and correct me if I'm wrong here, is that the Israeli military, like Hamas, is willing to sacrifice Palestinian civilians for their own military purposes. Israel, of course, accuses Hamas of hiding within civilian populations, essentially using Palestinians as human shields in Gaza.

And now we know that Israel is also using Palestinians as human shields. So I'm wondering if you think think that the correct way to understand your reporting here is actually a sort of shared disregard, both on the part of the Israeli military and Hamas, for Palestinian civilian life?

In other words, there's an emotional response that's happening on the part of Israelis and Israeli citizens who, of course, are also Israeli soldiers. And that is clouding, in some ways, judgment and allowing them or perhaps kind of inviting them to see Palestinians in this dehumanized way.

Natan, thank you.

We'll be right back. It was a major turning point in a conflict that had displaced over a million Lebanese and tens of thousands of Israelis. The conflict started on October 7th, when Hezbollah began firing into Israel in solidarity with Hamas.

Israel later retaliated, killing the group's longtime leader, planting explosives in the pagers used by the group's operatives, and conducting airstrikes against Hezbollah strongholds in Lebanon. The fighting has killed more than 3,000 Lebanese and 100 Israelis and severely damaged Hezbollah.

In the hours before the ceasefire was set to take effect, Israel continued to hit Hezbollah strongholds in Lebanon in the heaviest barrage since the war began. The Lebanese parliament is expected to approve the agreement in a vote on Wednesday. Today's episode was produced by Muj Zaydi, Jessica Chung, and Luke Vanderplug. It was edited by M.J. Davis-Lynn with help from Chris Haxel.

With research assistance by Susan Lee. Contains original music by Dan Powell and Marion Lozano. And was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. Special thanks to Patrick Kingsley. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you tomorrow.

So in other words, this is an Israeli soldier you're overhearing. The guy just came back from Gaza and he's recounting how they used Palestinians as human shields in Gaza.

So basically, he went dark before you could actually understand exactly what this phenomenon was.

Why use Palestinians for this? Why do this at all, for that matter? You know, Israel has an incredibly sophisticated military and presumably the technology to do this kind of work.

Today, a Times investigation into one controversial tactic, the Israeli use of Palestinian detainees as human shields, and what it reveals about the nature of the conflict. My colleague, Natan Odenheimer, explains. It's Wednesday, November 27th. So, Natan, a lot has been happening with Israel in the past few days. We had the ceasefire with Lebanon and Hezbollah on Tuesday night.

So the Israeli military is using people, Palestinian detainees, to do this very dangerous job that even dogs at this point can't do. Were you able to talk to anyone who this actually happened to?

I see, because this was after the Israelis had told everybody to evacuate, so anybody still there was suspect.

Because his feet were bare.

Wow.

Wow. So that actually shows you how frightening that was for him, that he felt better once he got to the Israeli detention center, not generally the kind of place that a Gazan would tend to feel very safe in.

Right. That he was essentially just a civilian.

So, Natan, you said that you eventually came to understand that the story of Bashir, the pharmacist, was actually not that rare. But what was the actual scope of this? What was the scale?

So the practice seemed to have gotten much more widespread as the war went on.

So the practice was broad enough throughout the military that it had a name and, you know, people knew it. That implies scope.

And the week before, the International Criminal Court issued arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former Defense Minister Yoav Galant. They issued those warrants for war crimes and crimes against humanity in Gaza.

Okay, so in other words, mosquitoes are kind of like Bashir, the pharmacist. They maybe got swept up in something inside Gaza, but wasps were different. They were brought from Israel back to Gaza and used there. But why would that happen? What is the purpose of moving them? It seems quite complicated to do.

So in other words, they might have some specific knowledge of where to look and where to find things.

And what did the Israeli military say to you when you confronted them about the practice before you published your article?

So they said they'd look into it.

You, Natan, have been investigating another practice by the Israeli military, one that's unconnected to what happened in the court, but seems to also raise questions about the rules of war. And that is Israel's use of Palestinians as human shields. Tell me exactly what you found.

But you've shown here that they're doing it again. What happened after your story published?

Natan, I'm curious about those Israeli soldiers that you talked to and how they saw this practice. I mean, fundamentally, it was something that was meant to protect them, of course, but clearly some of them must have felt uncomfortable with it because they were talking to you, a journalist, about it.

Hey everybody, it's Sabrina. It's been a little while, I know, and that's because after three years of hosting this show with Michael, I'm leaving the job as host. I've decided to return to my first love, reporting. It was a really hard decision for me. As you know, this is a very special show, and I'm really proud of the work I did on it.

I said reporting was my first love, but you, our dear listeners, and the amazing thing that is this show, is my other one. I always loved hearing from you, knowing you were out there. So, as you've probably noticed, there's been some new voices on the show as we figure out who's going to permanently step in. And don't be surprised if I come back to visit, as a guest or even to sit in as host.

Okay, here's today's show.

Right. It's not necessarily because they've become believers in it. So in other words, a lot more young people, particularly young men, unattached and kind of unmoored, who, because of this water problem, are potentially fertile ground for recruitment. Yes, that's right. So, Alyssa, what can Iraq do? It seems pretty stuck.

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily. As the Middle East braces for another year of extreme heat, longtime war correspondent Alyssa Rubin goes to Iraq, one of the hottest places on Earth, and tells the story of a new source of conflict, water. Today, Iraq's water crisis and what it means for the world. It's Tuesday, May 6th. Alyssa, you are a war reporter.

I would imagine that that adds up to some reasonable amount of conflict as well, right? That these countries are kind of at odds over the sharing of the water.

Okay, so that's an international avenue it's trying. What else is Iraq doing here? What other options does it have on its plate?

And why can Iraq not do it?

So, Alyssa, stepping back for a moment here and just looking at the big picture, Iraq is in many ways an extreme case when it comes to the effects of climate change. I mean, all of these things we've been talking about that could possibly happen in the future as the world heats up are actually happening now in Iraq.

But given that the country is such an extreme case, what does it actually mean for the rest of us? Like, how should we understand it as an example?

Fundamentally, the common thread is a less stable world.

Alyssa, thank you.

You spent over two decades covering Iraq, starting with the U.S. invasion in 2003. You and I were there together. We reported on many crises in Iraq, the war over all of those years. I left and you stayed. And you've recently turned your attention to a different kind of crisis. Tell us about that reporting.

We'll be right back. ¶¶ The threat comes after two months in which Israel has blockaded and bombarded Gaza and appeared to be its latest attempt to pressure Hamas into resuming the release of Israeli hostages. And the Trump administration said that it would begin offering a $1,000 cash stipend and a free flight to undocumented immigrants who willingly leave the United States.

Its latest attempt to encourage self-deportations. It's unclear how enticing the compensation will be. The White House said that one migrant from Honduras has already taken the government up on the offer and flown from Chicago back to his home country. Today's episode was produced by Rochelle Banja and Claire Tunisketter. It was edited by Liz O'Balin with help from Paige Cowett.

Contains original music by Alicia Baitouk, Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, and Sophia Landman. And was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Lansford of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you tomorrow.

So it became very clear to you that water should be your focus, that water was going to be the big problem going forward.

Wow.

So they literally disassemble their houses.

What's an example of a place emptying out like that, of people moving?

So the village was literally disappearing from the map, in a way. The people were leaving it, and it was turning into dust. Yes.

We'll be right back. So the land is drying up. Farming is becoming untenable as a way of life. And people are fleeing their villages. You set out to see where they were going. Tell me about that.

So the upshot here for people who move like this is pretty grim. I mean, essentially they're impoverishing themselves by moving.

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily. After the fall of Bashar al-Assad and the opening up of Syria, tens of thousands of people were released from prisons across the country. Many had been locked away for years. Today, my colleague Christina Goldbaum takes us inside one of those prisons and tells us the story of a man who made it out. It's Tuesday, December 17th.

How does Bilal describe his mental state through all of this?

Christina, why had the guard done that?

Christina, what was it like when you first got to Syria?

How has it been for Bilal to be home?

Oh, wow.

So they got one answer, but still don't have the other. Exactly. When you talked to Bilal's father, how was he feeling about this?

Christina, do they plan on continuing their search in the coming days?

Christina, thank you. Thanks for having me. We'll be right back. On Monday, the German government collapsed after Chancellor Olaf Scholz lost a no confidence vote in the country's parliament. Schultz was forced to take the unusual step of calling for the vote because his three-party coalition splintered last month, leaving him without a parliamentary majority to pass laws or a budget.

New elections are slated for late February. And a judge has rejected the argument made by President-elect Donald Trump that he is protected by presidential immunity when it comes to his conviction in the state of New York. Judge Juan Merchan said on Monday that the immunity argument does not apply because the case involves unofficial and personal acts that preceded Trump's first term.

If the decision withstands the expected appeal, he could become the first felon to serve as president. Today's episode was produced by Rochelle Bonja, Claire Tennesketter, Lindsay Garrison, and Stella Tan, with help from Eric Krupke. It was edited by Patricia Willans, with help from Lindsay Garrison.

Contains original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, and Rowan Nemisto, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Lansford of Wonderly. Special thanks to Huayra Saad and Raham Roshed. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you tomorrow.

We'll be right back. So, Christina, this man you met, Bilal, told you about how he got arrested and sent to Sidneya Prison. What did he say about what life was like inside the prison?

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily. Of all President Trump's cabinet picks, perhaps none is more familiar to more Americans than Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

We'll be right back.

So Cheryl, you said that RFK was in a lot of ways a natural leader for this movement because he'd been saying a lot of these things for years. But how did he come to be involved in the anti-vax medical freedom movement to begin with?

And I think the first thing I really want to understand is how RFK Jr., who's someone who is widely understood to be pretty fringe in a lot of his beliefs and really almost, you know, a conspiracy theorist, how he came to be up for that nomination to begin with.

So take us back to the pandemic. You said that it really crystallized this moment of anti-vax, anti-big pharma, anti-establishment. How did RFK plug into that?

So pretty wild stuff, in other words.

It was pretty crazy when that happened. I mean, I remember him as kind of the spoiler for both parties and then signing up with Trump, which didn't entirely make sense to me from an RFK perspective. I mean, Trump is this guy who's famous for fast food and doesn't really seem that concerned about health or environmental regulation.

And Kennedy famously, like, says, oh, my God, his diet. But you're saying it was just as simple as RFK saw a route to power and Trump wanted his voters. Yeah, I think it was very transactional.

So, in other words, Maha is born. Maha is born.

So, Cheryl, that brings us to his nomination as HHS secretary. And, you know, I guess given his whole rise to power and his rhetoric of the past, it makes me wonder, assuming he's confirmed, what do we think he would actually do or be able to do in this new role?

And what about the people in the movement, Cheryl, the Make America Healthy Again folks? What do they think?

So Cheryl, thinking about the arc of RFK's story, where he came from, you know, from this kind of obscure environmentalist fringe, all the way to controlling one of the biggest, if not the biggest, budget in the entire federal government. And lifted by a movement that, like him, started out fringe and is now very mainstream. What does that say about where we are right now in America?

Which obviously is a play on MAGA, right? Make America Great Again. So is this just really a subset of the MAGA movement, a subset of the Trump movement?

Cheryl, thank you for helping us understand this. Thank you, Sabrina. The debate over Kennedy's candidacy will continue today. The Senate Finance Committee is likely to vote next week on whether to send his nomination to the full Senate for a final vote. We'll be right back. Here's what else you should know today.

On Wednesday night, an American Airlines plane carrying 64 people collided in midair with a US Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan National Airport outside Washington, D.C. Both crashed into the Potomac River. On Thursday morning, authorities said they believed all on board both vessels had been killed. The helicopter had been carrying three people.

As of 9 a.m., the bodies of 27 people had been recovered. The collision happened around 9 p.m. on Wednesday as the flight was on its approach to the airport's runway. The plane was coming from Wichita, Kansas. Some of those aboard were figure skaters coming from championship games, which were held in Wichita. Russian figure skaters were also among the passengers.

The collision marks the first fatal crash involving a commercial aircraft in the United States in more than 15 years. And the White House rescinded an order that froze trillions of dollars in grants and loans after it faced legal challenges and prompted mass confusion among places like schools and hospitals that didn't know if they had lost all federal support.

The reversal was the first setback in Trump's aggressive use of executive power to reshape the government in his image. Orders directing agencies to review and cut spending on so-called woke ideology remained in place. Today's episode was produced by Alex Stern, Nina Feldman, and Eric Krupke. It was edited by Devin Taylor with help from Patricia Willans.

Contains original music by Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, and Alicia Baitube. Fact-checked by Will Peischel and engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Lansford of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you tomorrow.

On Wednesday, he faced a crucial nomination hearing, where a panel of skeptical senators probed his past, often controversial, remarks.

So there were a lot of people that were really concerned about this. But fundamentally, it was debunked, right?

So that probably made people pretty mad. Like that would have been a galvanizing force for people who really didn't like the idea of being forced to take vaccines.

I probably did say that. Today. My colleague Cheryl Gay Stolberg on how Kennedy became the face of a movement that has railed against the very system he could soon oversee. It's Thursday, January 30th. So Cheryl, I'm so glad you're here today because you are the perfect person for this.

Interesting. So it's bringing in this kind of sort of libertarian sensibility to the thing that had been the earthy, crunchy, lefty mom thing.

Okay, so bring us to the pandemic, where all of this language, you know, now we're quite familiar with starts to really happen more and more. And not just with a fringe group of people, but a lot of people. Like, this was the moment when I first understood just how big a portion of the population had skepticism about the medical establishment.

Right. It was like such a chaotic time. And that felt like that was the thing that people could actually control. Right. It's like I can tell you what you can't put in my body. That was like the last act of agency in some way that people had. Exactly. And I should add that you've also got social media.

I remember the Biden administration asking or telling the tech companies to take down some of this stuff, that there was this profusion of misinformation.

You cover both health and politics, which yesterday and today have come together in a very interesting way with this confirmation hearing of RFK Jr., If he gets confirmed, and that's a big if, he would be leading this vast government agency that's responsible in many ways for the health of Americans. It's called the Department of Health and Human Services.

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily. Among the many plans that Donald Trump laid out on his first day as president was a directive to abandon the shift toward clean energy and double down on oil. Today, my colleague Coral Davenport on whether Trump can pull it off and what it would mean for the country if he did. It's Thursday, January 23rd.

So he could do it, but it could take his entire term.

Yes. Okay, so taken all together, even if Trump can only get some of these EV plans done, his push against EVs is presumably pretty good for automakers generally, right? Like less regulation is probably a good thing?

Mm-hmm.

Okay, so the picture on Trump's plans is pretty mixed when it comes to these renewables. But what about his plans to increase oil production? What about what he wants to do with oil?

Right. So in other words, he can make it easier to drill more. But until the companies actually want to drill more, these policies won't result in more drilling. Right. Right. So if the companies aren't going to be drilling more, is there anything Trump can do to get energy prices lower?

So the one thing that the government could actually do as a policy lever to bring prices down, Trump is actually proposing to go in the opposite direction of.

So stepping back for a moment, you know, when we look holistically at everything laid out in these executive orders, What does all of it add up to, both for Trump's vision, but also for the United States and where it's headed when it comes to energy and its future?

So even though Trump faces a lot of roadblocks here, he would probably still be able to do enough to slow us down pretty meaningfully in terms of fighting climate change.

It's a vision of America from the 1950s or the 1960s.

On Wednesday, the Trump administration threatened federal employees with, quote, adverse consequences if they failed to report on colleagues who defy orders to purge diversity, equity and inclusion efforts from their agencies.

Tens of thousands of workers were put on notice that officials would not tolerate any efforts to hide the programs, which the Trump administration took the first step toward eliminating on Tuesday when it placed employees working in DEI offices across the government on administrative leave.

And a new fire exploded north of Los Angeles, bringing fear once again to Southern California, more than two weeks after wildfires first tore through the region. The blaze, named the Hughes Fire, ignited just before 11 a.m. local time, about 40 miles northwest of downtown Los Angeles.

It quickly consumed more than 5,000 acres in a little over two hours and forced tens of thousands of people to flee. Today's episode was produced by Rob Zipko, Shannon Lin, Alex Stern, and Sydney Harper. It was edited by M.J. Davis-Lynn and Liz O'Balin, with help from Lisa Chow. Contains original music by Dan Powell and Pat McCusker. And was engineered by Chris Wood.

Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Lansford of Wonderly. Special thanks to Yafim Shapiro and Nick Pittman. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you tomorrow.

Okay, let's dig into what these orders actually say. But before you really spell that out, Coral, give me a sense of what his reasoning is for doing this. Like, does he say that in the executive orders?

So it enhances their authority in a way.

So he's taking this kind of extraordinary step, but is the U.S.

Okay, so this may be an energy emergency kind of only by name, but he is declaring it, which means he is signaling that this is an important issue to him. This is going to be central to his new presidency. How does he propose taking it on?

Okay, so that's a lot of stuff. Let's start with oil, this big one that you mentioned at the beginning.

And why exactly does he want to do those things in particular? Like, how does that fit into his vision?

OK, so that's oil. You talked about a couple of different things. Electric vehicles was another piece of his plan. Tell me about what Trump is proposing on that front.

So, Coral, we're taking a close look this week at the most important parts of Trump's agenda so far. He laid them out with a whole series of executive orders on the first day of his presidency. For Wednesday's show, we looked at measures related to immigration. But today, we wanted to look at his efforts on energy policy, which is obviously hugely important for the U.S.

Coral, I'm kind of thinking as you're talking here about EVs about Elon Musk, who is, of course, the CEO of Tesla, which is this premier electric car company. And as of late, Trump's in some ways right hand man. So it seems like as the head of this company, he'd be a powerful opponent to this idea. Like he would not want Trump to rip up this Biden stuff when it comes to EVs. You would think so.

economy, but also for the climate. You are digging into this in your reporting. Explain what Trump did this week.

Not what I was expecting.

What else, Coral, is Trump proposing here? You mentioned wind. Yeah.

But what does Trump gain from doing this to wind? I mean, aside from sticking it to Biden.

So, Coral, listening to you talk, it really feels like Trump's vision for this American energy future is essentially an effort to wipe away the last four years of what the climate movement had achieved.

So, Coral, you just said that there's a big question about how much of this very ambitious agenda Trump is actually going to be able to do. So let's go through this bit by bit, Coral. So where should we start in terms of whether this is going to work?

And what about EVs? What can Trump do on that front?

Is there any way that Trump can take action here, Coral, on EVs without Congress? Like, what can he do?

Hey, it's Sabrina. Before we get started, a few details about a major developing story that's still being pieced together. According to investigators, in the early hours of Wednesday morning, an armed man driving a rented pickup truck deliberately plowed into a crowd celebrating New Year's Eve in New Orleans, killing at least 15 people and injuring dozens more.

So in part, it catches on because nothing else is on.

So suddenly there starts to be some real overlap between the UFC and MAGA world.

This is like the manosphere.

So back to your larger point, this is more than a sports league.

Matt, keep going.

From the New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily.

So here you have Dana White convincing Trump to backtrack. And it really just shows how much power White has in this relationship, which is kind of pretty surprising based on everything we know about Trump.

So what happens in the campaign exactly with White?

Right. And just to remind people, this was the holy grail demographic, right? Because in part, it was so hard to reach the people who don't ordinarily follow politics and really don't necessarily vote that much.

Over the past five years, one sports league has gained popularity faster than any other. The Ultimate Fighting Championship, or UFC. Today, my colleague Matt Flegenheimer on the man behind the league and how his longtime friendship with Donald Trump has transformed what was once a fringe sport into a cultural and political powerhouse. It's Thursday, January 2nd. Matt Flegenheimer.

So once again, these two men are validated in their instincts to buck the system, like to go with their gut, really in the most extraordinary way, and in the end, kind of shock the establishment.

So these two have learned all the same lessons up to this point. But I guess, Matt, looking forward, you know, if politics, as we know, is downstream from culture and Trump is clearly identifying the UFC as a very valuable part of culture to him politically, then what can we learn about where we're headed looking at where the UFC is now? What does it tell us about the future?

Wow. And that sounds like Trump.

Ukraine's leader has followed through on his threat to shut down the last major pipeline that carried natural gas from Russia to Europe. By closing the pipeline, Ukraine hopes to undermine Russia's ability to fund its war against Ukraine and use energy as a weapon against Europe. Before it stopped operating on Wednesday, the pipeline had brought Russia more than $6 billion in revenue a year.

Ukraine's energy minister called the closure a, quote, "...historical event." Today's episode was produced by Nina Feldman, Olivia Natt, Sydney Harper, and Claire Tennis-Sketter, with help from Shannon Lind, Rochelle Bonja, and Aastha Chaturvedi. It was edited by Lexi Diao, with help from Michael Benoit, contains original music by Dan Powell and Marion Lozano, and was engineered by Chris Wood.

Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. Special thanks to Joseph Bernstein. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you tomorrow.

Welcome to the show.

So Matt, we're going to talk today about UFC, but I have something to admit to you. By all means. I've actually never watched it. So let's start with the basics, Matt. Tell us what the UFC is.

Okay, that probably explains why I've never heard of it.

In a short speech last night, President Biden said that the driver, a U.S. Army veteran who died during the attack, had been inspired by the Islamic State and had expressed a clear desire to kill. Investigators said that they are still trying to determine whether he had acted alone or had any help from individuals or a group. These are the key facts we know for now.

And what happens in November?

Yeah.

OK, so this is an extraordinary scene. And I want you to tell me, Matt, how we got here. Like, how did Trump choose a UFC fight for his coming out party as president elect?

Okay, so tell me about Dana White.

We'll be following developments over the next few hours and we'll bring them to you as soon as we can. Okay, here's today's show.

Okay, so he sees a path to it despite the fact that people like John McCain say it's human cockfighting and states are banning it.

So what happens given that no one really wants to host the thing?

So in this grand love story of Dana White and Donald Trump, this fight in Atlantic City is really the meet cute moment.

Like he's a proud mom or something.

Yeah, yeah, he spotted it too.

Okay, so clearly these two have a lot in common, right? They're businessmen. They both have this reality TV thing. They both see the potential in this very violent sport. What about their politics?

You would alienate half your audience.

So what's the effect of all of this? Like, does it actually have repercussions on his business?

Oh, hell yeah. Yeah, let's get some questions going. Let's get some questions going.

Right. So the lesson is, go with your gut.

And as you said, the sky doesn't fall. And in fact, it boosts his status and his league status. What's the next thing he does that really propels this league?

Right, because remember, it was COVID. Everything shut down. The NBA stopped playing.

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily. Since the election of Donald Trump, cryptocurrency has surged to its highest level ever.

And of course, we know the end of this story, which is that Trump wins the election.

We'll be right back. Okay, so crypto now has this new level of influence in Washington, as you say. What does that look like exactly?

Incredibly powerful role because in government, personnel is policy. So this is a big deal.

What do we know about Paul Atkins? My understanding is he did serve at the SEC before. He's well known in Wall Street. He's well known in Republican political circles.

How much is it now?

Okay, so not only can crypto count on all of these new people coming into Congress, but they actually have these two incredibly important positions in the highest level of government. What is the effect of that likely to be for the industry, David? It feels almost like kind of crypto cabinet, right? Yeah.

And can Atkins just do that? Like say these cases are now canceled?

Wow.

So in other words, they want to take power away from this quite powerful agency that had been going after them and give it to a much less powerful agency and presumably less resourced.

And what is that exactly? A national Bitcoin stockpile?

But what justification does the crypto industry give for this? Presumably they're not saying, hey, U.S. government, invest in this thing so that my assets can go up. Like, why do they say it's good for the U.S. ?

Right. If the world is not running on the U.S. dollar, the U.S. has a lot bigger problems than cryptocurrency, I suppose. But let's just kind of carry this pipe dream out here. What would be in it for the U.S.? Like, why would the U.S. ever want to do something like this?

Okay, so in sum, it's possible that these crypto companies are actually going to get their entire wish list for Christmas. What might that mean for the rest of the U.S. economy?

But I guess, David, one man's shackles is another man's safety valve, right? I mean, fundamentally, this is a very risky asset for all of the reasons we've discussed. And it does seem like watching these new government officials come in and understanding how friendly they are to the industry is

For me, it feels a bit like we might be witnessing the architecture of the next financial crisis being built before our eyes.

David, thank you.

We'll be right back. Here's what else you should know today. On Wednesday, the Federal Reserve made their third and final rate cut of the year, lowering rates to about 4.4%. Jerome Powell, the Fed chairman, said the cuts mark a new phase in the Fed's plan to engineer a so-called soft landing for the economy.

The Fed also forecast that there would be fewer rate reductions next year than previously expected, as it continues to try to strike a balance between controlling inflation and preventing job loss. And the stopgap spending bill that Republicans and Democrats agreed to to prevent a government shutdown is in jeopardy after President-elect Donald Trump condemned it.

Trump's move comes just days before a Saturday morning deadline to fund the government and underscored the extraordinarily fraught position that Republican leaders will have to manage in the new Congress when they face a president with a penchant for blowing up politically fraught compromises. Today's episode was produced by Mary Wilson, Michael Simon Johnson, Rochelle Bonja, and Will Reed.

It was edited by Liz O'Balin, fact-checked by Susan Lee, contains original music by Marion Lozano and Dan Powell, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you tomorrow.

Okay, so feels potentially very real. Why has crypto been having this resurgence?

Got it. So that's part of the explanation, this kind of opening up of the mainstream economy to this pretty rarefied, kind of weird, formerly on the fringes financial instrument. But I also remember at that point, David, because you and I, of course, did an episode about this. I remember that the federal government and the regulators did not like that so much.

There was kind of a frenzy of concern among the federal government.

And just remind us, David, what was Gensler's kind of thrust here? What was he trying to do?

Today, my colleague David Yaffe-Bellini on how a small renegade industry that began as a challenge to the financial system ended up on top of it. It's Thursday, December 19th. So, David, you and I have been talking for years now about the ups and downs and ups again of this thing that never really seems quite real or solid, and that is crypto. And now crypto has exploded in value.

He was basically trying to make sure that crypto, which really is this pretty risky thing, that if it were to go belly up, it would not infect the broader economy.

So, David, how did the crypto industry respond to that, to all of this that Gensler was doing?

And this was new for the crypto industry? Yes.

And was prosecuted and went to jail for it.

Is this just another twist in the roller coaster or is it something bigger? Is this a pivotal moment?

OK, so they dump all of this money into these congressional races, which, as you and I both know, is the oldest way and the most tried and true way of, you know, shaping political outcomes in the United States is putting money into politics.

Okay, so they're at the big boy's table. What else do they do in this strategy to influence politics?

And David, tell me the deal with Trump and crypto, because my sense from reading your coverage and our colleagues' coverage is that he likes it, but I don't remember anything in his first term about crypto or his relationship with crypto. So tell me about Trump and crypto.

Okay, World Liberty Financial.

But is that important to Israel at all? I mean, the diplomacy, you know, okay, there's the reputation, but it's not fundamentally related to its power in the region and winning, right?

And after many failed attempts at a ceasefire, one has finally been agreed on. We're speaking on Wednesday afternoon. So far, what do we know about what it says?

Patrick, thank you.

On Thursday, last-minute disputes delayed a vote by Israel's cabinet that would ratify the ceasefire. Netanyahu's office accused Hamas of reneging on parts of it, a charge that Hamas denied. Despite the last-minute wrangling, the agreement is expected to eventually take effect. It will begin on Sunday, with Hamas releasing some hostages in exchange for Palestinian prisoners. We'll be right back.

Here's what else you should know today. On a busy day of confirmation hearings for Donald Trump's cabinet, his pick for attorney general, Pam Bondi, faced tough questions from Democrats about whether she could stand up to the president-elect and operate independently from him.

Bondi repeatedly dodged questions about whether she agreed with Donald Trump's false claim that the 2020 election was stolen and whether she would support his plan to pardon January 6th rioters.

Bondi is expected to be confirmed in the coming days.

Speaking to the American public for the final time before departing office on Monday, President Joe Biden described what he said were his gravest concerns before receding into life as a private citizen.

In a clear rebuke of Meta's decision to end its fact-checking program, Biden warned of a, quote, tech-industrial complex that he said is overwhelming Americans and called the country to, quote, hold social media platforms accountable. Special thanks to Adam Raskin. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you tomorrow.

And Patrick, what still remains to be negotiated exactly?

Patrick, you've talked through two phases. What's the third phase?

So why, after all these months, is this ceasefire finally happening now?

Yeah, so let's dig into each of those points then. Why don't you start with Israel stronger?

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily. After more than a year of war, Israel and Hamas have agreed to a temporary ceasefire.

And what exactly did Witkoff say? I mean, how did he put pressure on Netanyahu that may have kind of really moved it for the Israelis here?

So is the Trump envoy working directly with the Biden people on this?

We'll be right back. So, Patrick, how should we understand this deal and what it means for Gazans, for Hamas, for Israel, and really for the world?

And Patrick, who will do all of that rebuilding?

And Patrick, what about Hamas in the context of this deal? What does the deal mean for that group?

Which is pretty remarkable given where we started, which was Israel saying that Hamas would be eliminated from the Gaza Strip.

today, my colleague Patrick Kingsley, on why the agreement finally happened and what it means for Gaza, Israel, and the broader Middle East. It's Thursday, January 16th. Patrick, you've been covering this war since the very start. In fact, we've had you on so many times to explain to us the developments, to really educate us about what's going on there.

So to that point, what about Israel? What does this deal mean for Israel?

You said that one of the reasons we're here in this moment talking about a ceasefire now is because Israel is actually in a stronger position today. And it makes me wonder about its position in the broader region. You know, as you said, a lot of Hamas's allies have been weakened. So do you think that through this war, Israel is ultimately in a more powerful position now in the region?

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily. An alarming new hack by China has penetrated the nerve center of the United States, our phone network. Today, my colleague David Sanger on what the scope of this new attack tells us about the growing power of one of America's biggest adversaries. It's Thursday, December 12th. David Sanger, you're back.

And what does it mean that it goes from the Army to the Ministry of State Security? Why is that important?

David, what's an example of the Chinese getting better? If you think back to the turning points in surveillance in China, what's an example?

Okay, so China is getting much better at all of this. That extra funding and people and focus is really starting to pay off. But big picture here, David, what is China trying to do with all of this? Like, what's it really up to here?

Right.

So that's a huge step up, right? It's not just surveillance in this case. It's actually disrupting critical processes that are required for defense.

Okay, so that brings us to today and to this salt typhoon hack, which you say is still a problem because it's still lurking in our phone systems.

OK, so that's clearly a very serious problem.

It's not an easy engineering problem. So, David, just stepping back here for a second and thinking about this big picture, this all comes at quite a moment of potential change. We're just weeks away from President-elect Trump's inauguration with all of the potential kind of change and chaos he might bring with him on China, on a lot of these issues.

And I'm wondering how you see it right now, what all of this means.

Well, David, it sounds like we're going to have you on for more episodes about hacking in the future.

David, we look forward to it.

We'll be right back. Here's what else you should know today.

On Wednesday, FBI Director Christopher Wray said he'll step down from his role in the new year.

His decision comes after President-elect Donald Trump announced his intention to replace Wray with longtime loyalist Kash Patel.

Under Wray, the FBI repeatedly investigated Trump, including by searching his Mar-a-Lago estate for classified documents. And more details have emerged about Luigi Mangione, the man charged with killing the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, Brian Thompson.

In a series of social media posts, Mangione described health problems, saying back pain that had once been a minor issue got worse before having surgery last year. Mangione stopped communicating with friends and family about six months ago. His mother filed a missing person report last month. Mangione, who was arrested on Monday in Pennsylvania, now faces a murder charge and has been denied bail.

He's fighting extradition to New York. Today's episode was produced by Stella Tan and Mary Wilson. It was edited by Maria Byrne and Paige Cowett, contains original music by Dan Powell, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Lansford of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you tomorrow.

So this hack really shook Washington, and also it shook a number of important American companies, these telecoms, as you're saying. Tell me, David, what we know about it.

Wow. Were they actually listening to Trump and Vance's phone calls?

That's amazing. I mean, that is really a violation of American security.

Basically, the way that the U.S. government phone taps people it thinks are spying for other countries.

Wow. So the Chinese actually saw with this kind of, you know, see-through glasses they got in this hack who the U.S. suspected was a Chinese spy.

Interesting. But to what extent does it affect everyday Americans? Like, should I be worried about it?

Interesting. So if I'm doing a WhatsApp call, then that is off limits because that's encrypted.

Exactly. It needed access to people's phones to be able to see what the conversations had been.

So, David, you are here today to talk about a hack. And close listeners of the show will know that this is a topic you do sometimes talk about on The Daily. We counted. You have done three shows on hacking in recent years. But this particular hack, this one you're looking into right now, this one is different, you say.

So how did China actually pull it off?

So basically, these hackers kind of tried every door, found one that was open, and then was never challenged once they got inside that door.

Okay, David, so you've explained how this hack was really the biggest anyone in Washington and you had ever seen. It compromised really vital stuff. I understand all that, but haven't the U.S. and China been spying on each other for a long time? Like, is there a reason for us to think that this is actually worse than those other times?

We'll be right back. So, David, how did we get to the point where China got so good at hacking?

So where was China in terms of its ability in surveillance when he came in?

So it sounds like not quite Taliban-like, but some hard edges. Yes, I would say that, exactly that. So in other words, very unclear what this group could mean for the future of Syria, or even really if it's going to be the future of Syria.

But of course, there's this geopolitical earthquake that this is causing, right? That is happening at the same time.

It's Monday, December 9th. So, Carlotta, there's been an absolutely incredible turn of events in Syria. We're talking on Sunday morning. Walk us through what happened.

Carlotta, I want to just pause for a moment and think about what just happened from the perspective of Syrians. I mean, as we said, this place has literally been under this regime for about half a century. That's just changed. That's an incredible moment for the Syrian people. It's like an entire country just suddenly gets to wake up from this long sleep or something.

And I would guess that while that is potentially hopeful, it's also a really perilous moment because as you and I both know, when dictators collapse, violence and chaos can ensue.

On Sunday night, President Assad surfaced in Russia. Russian state media said that Assad and his family had been granted political asylum there. Meanwhile, the U.S. military carried out one of the largest series of airstrikes in Syria in months, saying that it would not allow ISIS to take advantage of the collapse of government there to regroup.

You promised to end birthright citizenship on day one. Is that still your plan? Yeah, absolutely. Speaking on Meet the Press on NBC, he said he would try to end automatic citizenship for children of immigrants.

And he said he would pardon supporters who stormed the Capitol on January 6, 2021. He said that members of Congress who investigated his role in that attack on the Capitol, like Republican Liz Cheney, should be put in jail. He said he would not direct his new attorney general or FBI director to pursue the matter, but indicated that he expected them to do it on their own.

Today's episode was produced by Claire Tennesketter, Carlos Prieto, and Rochelle Bonja, with help from Lindsay Garrison. It was edited by Patricia Willans, with help from Ben Calhoun. Contains original music by Marian Lozano, Dan Powell, and Pat McCusker. And was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. Special thanks to Yara Bayoumi.

That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you tomorrow.

I mean, it was just unbelievable, really, like that this country suddenly was leaderless.

And I want to unpack it with you. So how did this forever regime in Syria suddenly, shockingly just disappear overnight. Where should we start to explain that?

OK, so that is also when Syria starts to get really complicated. So lay that out for me, Carlotta. What starts to happen?

And why do Iran and Russia enter the war like that?

So bottom line, Syria becomes this kind of cauldron of geopolitical rivalries.

So how do we get from that deadlocked civil war to the rapid toppling of Assad that everybody just watched unfold?

We'll be right back.

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily. Syria has been controlled by one family for more than half a century. It ruled by repression, devastation, and violence. But about two weeks ago, the regime began to falter. And then, over the course of one stunning night, it collapsed. Today, my colleague Carlotta Gall on the fall of Bashar al-Assad and what comes next.

That's really interesting because it probably means he had some pretty serious jihadist credentials. But he clearly got out of prison. What did he do next?

Yeah, that's what I want to know. I mean, can one be former al-Qaeda? Like, how does that even work?

And how were they for women? How is life for women there, often an indicator with Islamic regimes?

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily. Since the riot on Capitol Hill four years ago... They were peaceful.

Give us a summary of where things stand with the legal cases of the people who participated.

But of course, we know that he doesn't ultimately report for his sentence.

And Anthony is hearing that message and thinking it's meant for him, like Trump is speaking to him.

We'll be right back. So Anthony and other participants are expecting pardons, and we have reason to believe that Trump will issue them. That's what he says he's going to do. So let's talk about the logistics and the implications of this. First, the logistics. How exactly would this happen? Like, is it just a stroke of the pen?

Right. And as you're saying, it could all happen with a stroke of a pen. Absolutely. Alan, it's pretty remarkable that with all of this prosecutorial work that's gone into this to hold hundreds of people to account, all of this would be thrown out. And, you know, of course that's important in its own right, but it does really set up the potential for a broader meaning here.

Like, for example, what does it do to public trust in the legal system?

Amazing.

Right. And of course, there's another piece here, which we've kind of touched on, but I want to bring back in front of people, which is the story of what happened that day, right? So to what extent do these pardons actually help the people who participated and help the president rewrite the story of what happened on January 6th?

But the crazy thing is we have this whole record. I mean, beyond the prosecutions, we have all of these videos. We have this body cam stuff. You know, in the modern internet age, there's a record. So can the narrative just be flipped like that? No.

Interesting.

Alan, it's really incredible to be watching this happen in the United States. I know comparisons are tricky, but I spent a lot of my early career in Russia. And that's a place that's really quite expert at whitewashing and just having an alternative reality version of history. You know, Stalin is seen by many in Russia as the leader who made Russia great.

And the fact that millions of people died of starvation and in mass executions, that's just not the dominant story or really part of the story at all at this point, in part because people don't want to see it that way. So this all feels very familiar to me in quite an eerie way.

President-elect Donald Trump and his allies have set out to sanitize the events of that day.

Alan, thank you.

We'll be right back. The President of the United States and Dr. Biden. Over the weekend, for his final time in office, Joe Biden bestowed the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the nation's highest civilian honor.

In doing so, he singled out several public foes of his successor, President-elect Donald Trump, including Hillary Rodham Clinton, Trump's Democratic opponent in 2016.

And George Soros, the activist liberal billionaire who Trump and his allies have mocked for years.

For Biden, the ceremony was an unmistakable message of support for a political and financial establishment that Trump is eager to replace in the coming months.

Today's episode was produced by Aastha Chaturvedi and Muj Zaydi, with help from Nina Feldman, Eric Krupke, and Mary Wilson. It was edited by Michael Benoit. Research assistance by Susan Lee. Contains original music by Dan Powell, Marian Lozano, and Sophia Landman. And was engineered by Alyssa Moxley, with help from Carol Saburo. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly.

That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you tomorrow.

And yet despite all of those efforts, despite that very clear verdict to really make a historical record and to bring to account those who were responsible, here we are, right? Four years later. And all of that is in doubt. Because President-elect Donald Trump has a very different version of what happened on that day.

And he's promised on day one of his presidency, he said, that he will pardon January 6th defendants on a case-by-case basis. In fact, he said within the first hour of his presidency, he'd do that. So we come to you again today, Alan, to help us understand that and what the consequences would be if it happens.

Changing it from a day of violence into, in Trump's words... That was a day of love. A day of love. And it was love and peace. As he prepares to take office for his second term, Trump said he plans to issue pardons to some of those responsible, throwing hundreds of criminal cases into doubt.

Wow, that's wild. Alan, do you normally talk to people who are on the run from the law? It's happened a couple of times. OK, so tell me more about Anthony. Sure.

Today, my colleague Alan Foyer talks to one of those rioters and explains how the pardons could help rewrite the story of what happened on January 6th. It's Monday, January 6th. Alan, welcome back to the show.

So, Alan, I was actually in the Capitol that day as well. I was covering this event for The Times. I had walked with the crowd to the Capitol and then inside the Capitol with the rioters. And, you know, it was an interesting split screen because I saw people walking around kind of just like...

in awe, as you're describing Anthony doing, you know, with selfie sticks, sitting in chairs, laughing, kind of like they were tourists at a tour of Capitol Hill. But then I also saw people breaking windows. Obviously, there was a lot of violence there that day. And, you know, it just allowed everyone to emerge with their own story of what happened that day.

Like everyone had their own narrative, which for them was true. And it sounds like Anthony had his own narrative.

So Alan, it's been exactly four years since January 6th. You've been our guide for understanding that day and the legal consequences for those involved. Donald Trump's win, of course, throws those consequences into doubt. But before we get to how this landscape might all be about to change, let's start with the basics. So as of today, January 6th, 2025,

So despite the footage of the violence around the Capitol that day, Anthony is kind of sorting through it all and landing on a pretty different version of events, namely that the whole thing had been set up.

Okay, so we know that's not the end of Anthony's story because he does eventually get arrested. When does that actually happen?

So, Sapna, what's the future of this? Because on the one hand, you have Trump about to take office and, you know, he's preparing to bring a bunch of tariffs, it seems like, down on China's head. On the other hand, you have Trump talking about saving an app that the whole U.S. establishment from Congress to the Supreme Court has determined is a threat to our national security.

So how's Trump going to thread the needle on this?

So that's new from when we started recording.

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily.

Sapna, thank you. Thank you. I hope the news doesn't keep going for you. I hope you have some of your Sunday.

On Sunday evening, Trump took credit for the ban being lifted in a speech in Washington, D.C.

In the speech, he bragged about his popularity on the app and suggested that the saga was now settled.

We'll be right back.

You are a TikTok expert. Help us understand what's going on here.

A ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas took effect on Sunday. As part of it, three Israeli women were released from captivity in Gaza and reunited with family members in Israel, the first hostages to be released as part of the first stage of the deal. The hostages were seen being handed over from the Red Cross to Israeli troops.

They then had emotional reunions with their families at an Israeli hospital. The start of the initial phase of the deal was delayed by almost three hours to 11.15 a.m. local time, after Israel said it had not formally received the names of the first three hostages to be released.

The corresponding release of 90 Palestinian prisoners, mostly women and minors, took place after midnight on Monday in the West Bank. In Gaza, Palestinians honked car horns and blasted music to celebrate and began returning to their homes all across the enclave. Today's episode was produced by Eric Krupke, Diana Nguyen, Michael Simon-Johnson, and Mary Wilson.

It was edited by Brendan Klingenberg and Mark George, with help from Maria Byrne. Contains original music by Alicia Baitoup, Rowan Nemisto, and Marion Lozano, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. Special thanks to Aaron Boxerman. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernussi. See you tomorrow.

Essentially fleeing the app because they could no longer post there.

But yeah, if you haven't heard, we're back now. Just ignore the last week of everything I've been saying.

Over the past few weeks, users of the popular video app TikTok braced themselves.

OK, so let's talk about how we got here. And I'll remind listeners that TikTok is owned by ByteDance, which is a Chinese company. It had tried to fight the ban all the way to the Supreme Court. Tell us what happened.

And what was the thinking behind making it sell the company?

And the company, as I remember from your telling, actually objected on the basis of free speech, that free speech meant that it should be allowed to continue operating. But on Friday, as you're saying, the Supreme Court actually decided against the company and upheld the ban, which, of course, brings us to the situation we found ourselves in this morning.

And I'm really going to miss it. And I'm really going to miss you.

And so what happened after the court made that decision?

So TikTok is saying that Trump is going to fix their situation, which is kind of confusing because Trump was against TikTok in his first administration.

This weekend, it did. And the app went dark.

OK, so Trump actually inspired the law we're talking about today.

But why is that, though? I mean, Trump, again, we've said, was the original naysayer on TikTok.

So they decide to go after Trump. How do they woo him?

But less than 24 hours later, it came back, crediting Donald Trump with flicking the switch.

OK, so this was the moment of Trump's full conversion to TikTok.

So fast forward to November. Trump wins. TikTok looks pretty smart in all of this wooing. And now here we are on the eve of Trump's inauguration. And everything's really up in the air with the app. If we're looking at the letter of the law, what are Trump's options here?

Today, my colleague Sapna Maheshwari on the biggest social media ban in American history and whether Trump can actually stop it.

We'll be right back. So, Sapna, Trump says he's going to be TikTok's savior. He's going to kind of negotiate a deal. What do we know about prospective buyers?

So given all of that, has anyone actually shown up to buy it?

Wow. So the algorithm is critical to the value of the company. And we still, at this point, don't know whether China is willing to let go of it.

Sabna, what is that? What is Trump doing there? I mean, inviting the CEO of TikTok to attend his inauguration?

OK, so both sides here are really signaling that they want a deal, Trump and China. But each side seems to have a different vision of what a potential fix through that deal would be. Right. Like for China, presumably a deal might be OK if it didn't include the algorithm.

Sapna, welcome back to The Daily. Thanks for having me. So we're talking on Sunday afternoon, and this morning, millions of Americans woke up to find that TikTok, the video platform with 170 million users, was no longer working. The U.S. government ban that's been talked about for months was finally here. But then, as we were preparing to tape this episode with you, the app went back online.

Does Trump have any other tools in his toolbox?

And I'd be damned if I can't slow dance with you Compose some sugar on me, honey, too It's a real-life bookie and a real-life hoedown

I have a fun idea, babe Maybe just stay inside I know you're craving some fresh air But the ceiling fan is so nice And we could live so happily

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily. A new study has found that nearly three-quarters of American adults are now obese or overweight. And there's been growing concern among politicians, scientists, and consumers about one potential culprit. Are ultra-processed foods to blame for addiction to sugar and ultra-processed foods? ultra-processed food.

Okay, so in a controlled environment, in the perfect scenario, which Kevin Hall created, it is true that people do eat more calories and do gain weight from these ultra-processed foods. But do we know exactly why they do, Alice?

These foods are being designed to make us want to eat them and want to eat more of them.

Okay. You should have told me that before the ring ding.

Okay, so we know that ultra-processed foods can cause weight gain, at least according to this small study, and we're starting to get more research to understand why that happens. But why has it taken so long to get to this point?

What does that growing recognition look like? What's happening?

Okay, Alice, here's the part in the podcast where I ask you how you think about these foods, because you're the expert. I want to probably try to avoid a lot of these foods, and I want to know how you think about doing that, given that they're kind of everywhere.

And tell me about this category. What are ultra-processed foods exactly?

Thinking about the future of this problem, Alice, I wonder if an analogy is the tobacco companies in the beginning of the conversation and the cigarette industry, right? That back in the beginning, the industry was incredibly well-funded. It was very difficult for scientists to prove that cigarettes were, in fact, bad for you. But eventually they did, and eventually they were regulated.

And I wonder in some way if ultra-processed food might also follow that same trajectory but just kind of be at the beginning of it right now.

Here's what else you should know today. On Thursday, President Biden said that he was commuting the sentences of nearly 1,500 people and pardoning 39 people in a sweeping act of clemency during his final weeks in office. The White House said that it was the largest number of commutations by an American president in a single day.

Okay, so these are foods that have really long lists of ingredients, the names of which you kind of don't understand what they are, right? Yeah. That's right. Okay, Alice, I went to the grocery store this morning knowing that you were going to come in and be recording with us. And we have some items here. Okay. I don't know if you can see this here. Do you see? Ringdings? Ringdings.

The commutations affect those who have been released from prison and placed in home confinement during the coronavirus pandemic. The pardons are for people who were convicted of nonviolent crimes, including drug offenses. As a senator, Biden had championed a 1994 crime bill that many experts say fueled mass incarceration.

He has since expressed regret for supporting that legislation, and he committed during the 2020 campaign to addressing the long drug sentences that resulted. The announcement came two weeks after Biden issued a pardon for his son, Hunter, a decision that was harshly criticized by both Republicans and Democrats. A quick reminder to catch a new episode of The Interview right here tomorrow.

This week, Lulu Garcia Navarro talks with travel guru Rick Steves about why he spent his life encouraging Americans to get outside their comfort zones.

Today's episode was produced by Alex Stern, Sydney Harper, and Ricky Nowitzki, with help from Olivia Natt and Michael Simon-Johnson. It was edited by Lisa Chow and Chris Haxel, contains original music by Dan Powell and Marion Lozano, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Lansford of Wonderland. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi.

See you on Monday.

Just a few ingredients. High fructose corn syrup, sodium aluminum phosphate, monocalcium phosphate, preservative sorbic acid, sodium cassonate, polysorbate 60, and dried eggs. Oh my goodness.

I did. You're right. That's why I pulled it off the shelf. I'm just going to show you. Here is Wonder Bread monoglycerin. Let's see. Hold on a second. Sugar. Calcium peroxide? That sounds ultra-processed to me, Sabrina. Okay. Here's one. Looked healthy to me, and I often eat these things. Yoplait Original Made with Real Fruit Mountain Blueberry Yogurt. Okay.

It has blueberries, milk, sugar, gelatin, cornstarch, pectin, natural flavor, vitamin A, acetate, and modified food starch.

That is ultra processed. Okay. So everything in my grocery cart is ultra processed, even the yogurt. Pretty much.

And Alice, what's the universe here? Like how much of our food is ultra-processed here in America?

Okay, so here's my question for you. Most people, I think, would acknowledge that ultra-processed foods are kind of bad. Now, of course, you make the point that it's a huge category, but lots of what's in ultra-processed foods isn't really something that we think generally we should be putting a lot of into our bodies. But it's everywhere.

So why have these foods been allowed to proliferate like this? What is driving this kind of expansion of these foods?

Today, my colleague, nutrition writer Alice Callahan, on how these foods came to be such a big part of what we eat and why that's so hard to change. It's Friday, December 13th.

And what's hyperpalatable?

So tobacco companies kind of originally were the pioneers here, bringing us, it sounds like, highly addictive food, kind of like cigarettes.

So you cover nutrition for The Times, and you, as I understand, are uniquely qualified to have this conversation about ultra-processed foods because you literally have a PhD in nutrition.

Alice, I bit into my ring ding.

It is hyper palatable, like uber hyper. We'll be right back. So, Alice, what do you mean when you said it was harder than you'd think to prove that ultra-processed foods cause obesity and other health problems?

In other words, just because people are becoming more obese over time and as a result suffering from diseases like type 2 diabetes, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the ultra-processed foods that's causing that obesity rise.

So, Alice, how do you isolate the driver of worse health then? How do you go about doing that?

Right. You're not really going to say, hey, 10,000 people, come live in my lab for 10 years and I'm going to control everything and you're going to eat exactly the same thing as that guy.