Sam Harris

I'm here with Tristan Harris.

Tristan, it's great to see you again.

Sam, it's great to be back with you.

So you've been busy.

You've been busy worrying about social media for years, and you created this, in part, created this documentary, The Social Dilemma, which it seems half of humanity saw.

We still have a problem with social media, I'll point out, but you, as much as anyone, alerted us to the nature of the problem and are continuing on that front.

But now you have added to your portfolio concerns about AI, and there's this new documentary, The AI Doc, which I just saw, which is very super watchable and interesting.

entertaining in its own way uh but also you know very worrying and we'll talk about the reasons to be worried here and um maybe some of the reasons to be optimistic or at least cognizant of the upside should things um go well but there's a lot to um fear on the front of things not going well so yeah

Well, let's just take it from the top.

When did you start worrying about AI?

Yeah, yeah.

I remember watching it at the time and

Also famously, it got Reagan's attention.

He was worried as a result.

Yeah, well, there are two cases made in the film.

Obviously, there's the very worried slash doomer case, which we both share to some degree.

And then there are the people who seem capable of producing really an unmitigated stream of happy talk on this.

And they don't seem to concede anything to the claimed rationality of our fears.

I wonder what you make of, I mean, I've asked this question of probably you in the past, and

uh, many others on this topic, but what do you make of the people who are, of whom you can't say they're uninformed?