Sam Smith

And over the years, that's what I've seen in players.

They want two things from a coach, just two things.

Are you credible?

Do you know what you're doing?

And can you help me be better?

And I thought that was really the reason why Phil and then later even Kobe, too, despite issues that they had, really came to trust Phil and more so the system of play, which enabled them to succeed.

Well, part of it, as you see on TV still, I mean, I don't know who endorses more products, Shaq or Peyton Manning, but they pretty much endorse everything between the two of them.

And Shaq was this incredibly popular figure with media.

And when he had this, you referred to it too, the falling out rivalry with Kobe, those couple of years that eventually led to Shaq's trade.

And we've still talked about that.

And we've talked about that a

You know, it's an NBA story.

I wrote about it.

Phil witnessed it firsthand, tried to litigate it.

But Shaq literally, because he was so popular, he literally went to reporters at the time.

I remember I was among those.

And he asked you to choose sides.

Actually, I chose Kobe.

I was one of the few who kind of sided with Kobe.

He want if you weren't going to write a nice, you know, treat me, be my, you know, be sort of in my and then reporters end up doing that.