Sarah Hagi

Same, but something about this, I was like, oh, it's kind of fun, but it's too many elements.

Okay. I went to Skilly's Manners Academy, so no, I'm not going to be popping gum on stage. But listen, it's the message, not the messenger sometimes. Yeah. Well, all the noises I just made to be like, sure. Oh, Gaga. Gaga had a really good speech.

Gaga, really? I was like, oh, wait. I'm not even like a little monster like that. Like my paws are kind of like. Your paws are at half mass. Kind of like shrugging a little bit sometimes. But when she came out in that black gown with like the kind of like heavy bang, I was like, oh, okay, she's back. I mean, the looks were giving. We're in a really good space.

But also like, it's like not even 20 minutes later, Michael's just over phone full volume watching the performance all over again. I was like, oh my Lord. Can't you at least like tell us to pause like the commercials so you can watch this?

And I need to hold space for one woman in particular who truly had the best, most understated, stunning, stunning outfit of the night. Who?

That is not an Oscars dress.

And I don't think it's an Oscars dress, okay? It's a little uchi mama. Oh, don't shoot the messenger. It's a little messy.

But not even turning into the same thing. I think the thing about Olivia Rodrigo's dress is that she just looked so like, it was just perfect. There are no notes. There are not too many elements. I thought there were too many elements last night in all of these dresses.

And actually that reminds me of Queen Latifah. Queen Latifah is never caught not looking her best.

He took Billie Eilish's hat. He said, give me that. He's like, give it to me now.

No, I would die for her. I would die for her. But what do I always say about her? That she is 45. She is 45 and 16 and freshly 21 and also 64. Like she's all those ages at once. Queen. I like Chapel's first dress. I didn't like her little clan hat thing. That was a mess. The dunce cap she was wearing up on stage. Don't call it a clan hat. What would you call a tall hat that's pointy? You got me.

Like I said. Oh, a party cap. Okay. A party hat.

Okay, did you see this babyface red carpet interview that was going viral? These two women, before you ask, yes, they were. W-H-I-T-E. Interviewing babyface on the red carpet through like the AP live feed. And one of the women sees Chapel Rowan coming behind him. She's like, Chapel, Chapel. And he's like, oh, okay. He like moves out of the frame and the chapel comes up. And it was just so rude.

Let me tell you how rude it was. Khloe Kardashian logged on to say it was rude. Really? And then Charlie Puth quoted her to say how rude it was. No, no, no, no, no, no. Wait, wait. No, no, no, no, no. Not two white legends.

It's like you cannot play in the face of baby face Edmonds. Chapel, Chapel. Even Chapel was probably like... No. You're talking about whip appeal.

Except for the whole weekend, like, the groveling to the weekend. I said, oh, girl, that's Tedros.

I'm going to be running back. I feel like that's a key part of your world that no one knows, that you were the sports head in the family.

Let me tell you, I feel the same way. I woke up and I saw that. First of all, she did not do blackface. We'll get to that in a second.

But I was like, I have never followed them on any platform, did not watch their bachelor season, barely even knew about the drama beforehand. I just remember that like she had done a sorority formal dress up in like a kind of plantation chic. And had- I'm not going to touch that. Okay. Okay. So I've never followed them on anything. Never watched their bachelor season.

Didn't really know any like the controversy around their coupling, whatever. Don't follow Matt James's food blogs or something. I only know that his marathon running time for the New York City Marathon was not good. Because one of my friends who did run the marathon told me that it was not impressive for him to run it in three hours. But Why was I locked in? Why did I press play on Call Her Daddy?

Mm-hmm. Immediately. A, like, six-hour interview and watch the entire thing.

So we should catch everyone up on, like, what the latest is.

And I think I only really know about them because I would always see them come up on, like, my Explorer page or, like, on my TikTok feed. And they seemed, like, so genuinely, like, oh, wow, you guys are still together. Like, that's crazy. Like, it must really be love.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, I can't say anything good about them. Can't say anything bad about them. What I can say is that this breakup was so crazy. Yeah. Like I need forensic evidence about who did what, when and where. Yeah. Because the long story short of it is that they'd been dating for four years.

They go on a trip to Japan and part of Rachel's like not job, but like something that she would do for him a lot is like find restaurants for them to go to. So we could like post about it. And they went to this one restaurant, and she felt, like, very underwhelmed by it. And she kind of teared up at dinner because she felt, like, guilty, which is, I think, a red flag.

Oh, no. I would want to be, like, the mean sister, like, low-key. I would want to be, like, the sister who, like, does the bullying. But the sister on the receiving end, I'd rather die. Okay, yeah.

I know. And that was kind of, like, the most, like, ooh, gosh. The way that she said to Alex Cooper, like, oh, well, like, we went to this place and he couldn't post about it. And, like, well, if he can't post about it, then, like, you know, this dinner is a waste and all this. I was like, oh, my gosh. Not to be, like, boomer tease, but… oh, what is going to happen to us in even five years?

But yeah, that was like kind of the first red flag for me. They go to dinner, like don't speak at all during dinner. He's kind of like, why are you so upset about like choosing a bad restaurant? And she's like, well, because I feel bad because I know this is like, you know, you're passionate about it, whatever.

And then it turns into some version of like him asking her, well, if you are so upset about this dinner, that doesn't even matter, what's going to happen when like real life stuff happens to us and like you're not equipped? And then she was like, wait, what? Hold on. Excuse me. Huh?

And so Baxter, in the context of their relationship, is that they don't live together. Yeah. Because he's religious.

I know. And the other thing too is like, okay, so they have that fight and then he's like, okay, maybe I'm like revaluating a lot of stuff or maybe it's like awakened some dormant concerns about the relationship. That's fine.

But then why in like the weeks and months leading up to it, have you been saying, oh, I want a family with her, posting on Instagram about how much he loves her, like talking to and comments about how much he loves her. It's like, sorry, which is it? That's so weird to me.

It's so sad to me. And then later I have started this show because I want to get to that scene, which I've seen a hundred times, but I don't know any of the context around it where they're at dinner and like Lisa Rinna is there at season five, I believe. And Kyle is like trying to like be mean to Kim and Kim's like, you're never been a good sister to me.

So I have been watching a little television program called Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. Shout out to LA. One thing that you probably know about me, I've always wanted a sister. Like as long as I've been an adult, I've wanted a sister. I feel like I'd be so powerful if I had an older sister. Oh, you want to be a younger sister? Yeah, of course. Okay. I'm trying to be eldest daughter syndrome.

Broken heart emoji. The broken heart is like actually so like psycho, psychopath. Do not you dare summon the Lord when you're breaking up with me. Psychopath. But okay. So then behind the scenes in this call her daddy interview with Alex Cooper, Rachel says, so we went to dinner. He had this conversation with me.

We broke up and then she had to leave Japan and go to like back to the US to go to a baby shower the next day. And so she wakes up the next morning and she's like, I don't really know. Like we had this... Like maybe we are broken up, whatever. At some point before she like gets to the airport, the plane takes off.

She sees this post because her friends are texting her being like, what the fuck is going on? And then she's like, oh, I guess we like actually are broken up. That's the part that I'm like, not that you can talk someone out of a breakup, but just like, wait, you're going to like tell everyone immediately?

Like you... Something that is like very private between the two of us right now is suddenly like the world's business. And three hours after they broke up. And now she's on a flight with a phone that doesn't work. And she can't even, you know, talk to her girls about it. I was like, oh, no, no, no, no. 12 hour flight, no Wi-Fi.

Let me tell you what I'm doing. I'm buying a gun. Oh, yeah. I'm buying a gun. I'm buying a grenade. Oh, damn. I don't know what I'm going to do.

Yeah. The prayer part is, like, just such a crazy part. Toward the end of the interview, Rachel said that they kind of talked, like, the next day. Because, again, how is this whole breakup after four years going to be settled in, like, one three-hour conversation in Japan after a terrible dinner? You know they were hungry. Stomach's growling. Right? Oh my gosh. So they talked the next night.

Everyone else here is a better sister to me than you are. And then someone, another white woman don't know her name was like, oh, you beast. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Like, oh, I want to go there so bad. Take me there.

He apologized for how he posted the Instagram. But just like there are some things in this world that only make sense within a man's head. Why would you post an old ass photo of them from when they first met? Not even.

I'm going to say something bold. Say it. Death to the Instagram couple.

Until you get engaged with a fresh set, we don't need to know about it. We don't need to see it. Keep it private.

Yes. Her husband. Yes. And why did she do that? Because she said at Drilling Stone, don't let a man embarrass you. And that's why Whoopi Goldberg said, don't let a man in your house. Listen to the Lord. Listen to the legends, ladies, please. Father God. Oh, this prayer is so crazy. And I don't even come from a church background. What do you think is next for him?

So Rachel did this interview with Alex Cooper of Call Her Daddy. And it was like very in-depth. But I do appreciate that she didn't like talk badly about Matt. It was like more about the facts of their relationship as she experienced them. And was very clear about like, this is how I was feeling.

I truly don't know how he was feeling a lot of these things because he was giving me so many mixed messages. A, and B, she did clarify that like there was no cheating as far as she knew. And that like people thinking that were true. projecting. But I'm like, what is Matt going to do? You know, Nick Vile of the Vile Files is like chomping at the bit to get him on.

And also, if I saw him in a restaurant, I would leave. I would walk right out the door. I wouldn't want to be there. No. Hunter's act of resistance. Anyway, I think we've reached a conclusion today that if you're a man, get off the internet. Immediately. Close the Wi-Fi. Right now. Turn it down. You don't need that 3G. Stop it. You don't need it. Stop it.

Even like close your legs to married men. It's like there are things on like our housewives vernacular that are so specific. And it's like they are building bridges.

What I like about this whole saga, I will say is that you did the work. I can't accuse you of not doing the work.

Wow.

Yeah. Okay. So to get started, have you seen Amelia Perez? And if you have, what did you think of it?

Yeah.

And so ahead of this, were you aware of like the kind of historic nomination of Carla Sofia Gascon as like the first openly trans performer to be nominated in an acting category?

But one of the things that I don't like about Beverly Hills that I don't think is a problem with like classic Roni, there are too many husbands involved. Like the episode I just watched in season three, Mauricio, Kyle's husband, just birds of a feather. Hello. It's like barking back at Brandy. I'm like, why are you as a man raising your voice to a woman? Say it a woman's business.

Some of these tweets, the one where she called George Floyd a like drug addicted swindler when she was saying that like Islam needs to be like ripped from the face of the earth or something like that. The tweet about Hitler, the tweet about Christopher Columbus in defense of those people. It's like, what? Who didn't she offend? Equal opportunity offensive.

But now I'm like, she was doing it for the love of the game. Like tweet all of that for no likes, like not even as like a shit poster. That's so crazy.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. That is so just crazy. We want to switch gears and ask about her apologies. Carla Sofia Gascon has issued, she issued one apology on Thursday night after your tweets started going viral. And then she issued a longer apology to The Hollywood Reporter on Friday, which she said she had written through tears. She deleted her Twitter account at that time.

And then on Sunday, she did an hour-long interview with CNN en Español. Have you seen these apologies and what do you kind of make of them? She seems very defensive and kind of claims that she's not racist, is apologetic to everyone. Quote, And there's a thing about her like not even wanting to kill a house spider. Oh.

My God. Simon is so Peter Thomas, Patricia coded. Like, that's what Nini would say about Peter.

And I think that's an answer. She's like, oh, I learned so much from my Muslim friend. And it's like, wait, so you did think all that stuff before. Like, it can't be you go through what you go through.

I forgot that Simon and Ramona really used to like go at it. Like Ramona hated it. But then at one party, she like loves him. She's like, oh my God, I love Simon. And it's like Ramona Singer is so, I love Paris. Paris is my friend.

But it also goes to show like the kind of obnoxiousness that these tweets existed for so long and that no one even thought to check or that they didn't surface in any other way is like kind of mystifying to me when there's like a studio as big as Netflix behind this.

Yeah. I want to ask you one more question before we close. I saw on Crazy Days and Nights that you're friends with Demi Moore.

To be clear, Sarah Hagee, thank you for being here. Co-host of Scamfluencers. Not a studio plant.

Not friends with Demi Moore.

Not yet. Not yet.

Where can people follow you?

Love you. Oh, love you too.

Follow Let Me Say This on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to bonus episodes of Let Me Say This exclusively and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or an Apple podcast. Before you go, tell us a little bit about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.

And let me say this, bullying works. Bullying works.

For Wondery, Eliza Mills is the development producer. Our managing producer is Taylor Sniffen. Nick Ryan is our senior managing producer. Our producer is Kate Young. Our senior producers are Candice Manriquez-Wren and Brian Taylor White. Executive producers are Dave Easton, Aaron O'Flaherty, and Marshall Louis.

What are we talking about this week? Girl, the Grammys. And the Rachel Kirkconnell, Matt James breakup that I have been inhaling every single detail of despite not watching any of their Instagram, social media stuff, The Bachelor season about them, whatever.

Sarah really shook the table with those.

Sorry, excuse me. Let me say this.

Are you looking for a home for your worst opinions?

No, no, no. But like watching Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, the sisterhood, if you want to even call it that, I don't even know if it qualifies, between Kim Richards and her sister, Kyle Richards. Oh, my God. I don't want a sister. That's an op. Yeah. That's a nemesis.

Absolutely. Because I said, if we don't get Beyonce and Miley doing two most wanted at the Grammys, I'm pulling suit. I'm putting on my legal action wig. I'm wearing a suit and a tie.

And has been. Okay, but other than that, perfect Grammys. No notes. And the weekend thing, but you know, whatever. The good outweighs the bad.

No, it's like, what's about to happen next? What is about to happen? Amelia Perez, best picture. Like, how bad can it be after a night that was honestly...

Yeah.

Wait, before we get to that, we have to say we have to hold space for Beyonce album of the year. And quiet, quiet on set.

I screamed. I was so like, oh, we watched together last night at my house. And I truly thought, oh, God, Billie again. And I love that album. Hit me hard and soft. But it's like, oh, please. How much more does Beyonce have to do?

And you know who's going to be on our side? Miley Cyrus. Miley Cyrus. Period. My desire is presenting, what was it, song of the year? And she's like, listen, if it's not Beyonce, I'm going to say Beyonce anyway. And it went to Kendrick, so she was like, okay. Okay, fine.

Love, love, love. But I was just so happy for Beyonce. Did not like her dress. But listen, we ride.

Okay, and I saw a tweet today that was like, who finds Bruno Mars sexy? And it was three people, and all three of them were in my apartment.

That is someone who has grown up right behind you, setting your every move to destroy you. That is what Kyle does to Kim. Kim, listen, has a problem with alcohol, has a problem with drugs, has a problem with logic. But the way that Kyle treats her is so ugly inside and out. Oh my gosh. Talk about someone rotten to her core. So you're into it now.

But we turned up at the right moment.

For Beyonce. I did see online immediately after people being like, oh, Cowboy Carter is her worst album. Why couldn't this have gone to Lemonade or Self-Titled or Renaissance, of course. And while I think that Cowboy Carter is not her best work, vocally, she's still on another level that many people can't even wish to dream about. Yeah. I won't say any names.

But I think that like Kelby Carter as like an exercise in her own dexterity says a lot about her career. Yeah. And also, how are you going to win album of the year for a country album that was nominated at the CMTs? Now wake that up. Now you're shaking the table. And I...

No, she made her story. Blue did. And then did you see the other? So that was when Beyonce won like best country album. First black woman in 50 years or black person in 50 years to win, I read. But then later when she won album of the year, Blue, I saw a lip reader being like, Blue said, can I go up with you? And Beyonce was like, of course. Aww.

The real winners are people who wake up to take a screenshot. The people who get out of bed to start spreading some lies, spreading some gossip. Not even lies, the truth. The truth. I don't think I'll ever recover from Kendrick sweeping all five of his nominations, and then everyone in the auditorium at the Crypto.com arena... formerly Sable Center, singing along to A Minor.

I said, oh my gosh, Drake is looking for a Twitch streamer basement to crash out in right now. He's doing the Grammys. He truly has lost more money than Bruno Mars. Oh! Oh, my God. And then going back to back with the Super Bowl. Hello, football. No, it's death is upon my friend. And I don't know, but I feel like he reps Dallas sometimes. So the Luka Doncic trade is also unsettling his spirit.

I'm convinced. I'm hooked. Last night was a major night for me being like, oh, that song that I always hear everywhere I go. Oh, totally. That song that I always like scroll past on TikTok. A hundred percent. I had no clue what Benson Boone looked like before last night. And I was like, he's hot and yet does nothing for me.

Well, season one is bad. Okay. Season two is better because Brandi Glanville comes and she shakes the table. That's the one who that's like famous gif of Kyle calling her a slut. No, Kim calling her a slut pig at a fight. Love. With Game Night.

But OK, I know that I should feel like he's hot, like country kind of back road, Bartlesville, Paul Meskel.

I just saw his album cover and I was like, that's nasty. He's like roller skating shirtless with like some cut off khaki pants. It's like, girl, oh my goodness. You'll see it one day.

Oh, thank God. Every woman did such a good job except for Janelle Monae.

It was the kind of thing where I was like, wait, sorry.

Like, she should not have to have seen that. And neither should I, honestly. I just think the whole, like, Quincy Jones tribute was, it just felt all over the place. It felt very kind of like...

slapped together oh I didn't mean to say slap but slapped together at the last minute Will Smith introducing it all was kind of like huh okay like I kind of see I get like the French Prince connection but like I didn't think it needed to be him and I didn't think she needed to be wearing that I heart QJ t-shirt that Times Square ass t-shirt No, I didn't like that at all. And then the white girl.

Who's higher dose? What's her name?

From Stevie Wonder to Janelle Monae.

But you know what was a serve? Oh, and Cynthia Erivo too. I thought she sounded so good, but like the, just her doing that song was just like random to me. Her doing Frank Sinatra?

Because they called her stupid. And that'll happen.

That too. But Dochi was so good.

Uh, yeah.

But no, I thought she was, I thought she was spectacular. And like, also just like, it's crazy because they did the like best new artist in a medley, which I didn't mind. But it just seemed like Dochi was at another level than like whoever the white boy was with the face tattoos, who's not Jelly Roll, but close. Or even your man, Shibuzi.

I was like, Shibuzi had the same amount of time as Dochi and she did three songs and he did like one and a half.

Someone's like, oh, okay.

Eight outfits in a night though, it seemed like. I mean, I like also all of like the kind of doppelgangers on stage was so cool. I mean, not to pit women against each other, but like something about Dotri's performance worked for me in a way that Chapel's performance just didn't.

One of the things that did really hit me was the idea of feeling so much shame to be a part of a scam and to be scammed. And it's something that we see a lot on our show. And in episode six, you know, Jane said she hadn't told her siblings where she'd been for more than a month after getting out of the scam factory, which was so sad. Yeah.

So learning about the scale of these scam compounds and after hearing about, you know, this very harrowing ordeal everyone in the series had to go through just to get out, I think we're really curious to know where are things now since reporting the story and what are the updates you're learning about the whole operation? Yeah.

I mean, that's incredible. Like, is this just kind of the first big step for them to be eradicated?

I mean, another huge question is, where are the siblings? Like, how are they doing after all of this?

I feel like this whole ordeal must be so hard to kind of get through emotionally. And from what you witnessed, what would you say are the lasting effects of the scam factory of all these individuals who escaped? You know, this trauma, this very traumatic experience that they all faced. And I'm sure it's hard to live a normal life after that.

You know, you spent so much time working on the story. What do you hope your audience will take away from this? You know, as a listener, I kind of want to know what I can do to help stop this. And are you now like a resident scam narc trying to protect everyone you know?

I think that is a perfect note to end on. Thank you so much for joining us, Denise. It has been such a pleasure chatting with you. And I'm so excited for everyone to listen to this.

This bonus episode of Scam Factory is hosted by me, Sarah Hagee. And me, Sachi Cole. Senior producer is Claire Chambers. Associate producer is Evangeline Barras. Sound design by Jay Rothman. Sound supervisor is Marcelino Villalpando. Theme song by Tangelene Bolton. Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Frees on Sync. Senior managing producer is Lata Pandya. Managing producer is Heather Beloga.

Fact-checking by Jacqueline Colletti.

And I'm Sarah Hagee, the other host of Scamfluencers. In our show, we tell stories of insidious scammers and con artists who use charm, charisma, and influence to sell a beautiful promise all for personal profit.

Yeah, I mean, when I listened to this story, I was shocked. They had these pre-written scripts. They had well-timed emotional manipulation tactics. These carefully curated catfishing photos. It was just so crazy.

I'm getting a scam call right now. Are you really? So funny. Yeah, I just had to decline it. Actually, I do want to talk a little bit more about these scams because I feel like most of us know enough to see a weird link and identify it immediately like this is a scam. So we ignore them. And I feel like it gives people the sense that these scams are too silly to actually work.

But as you found out, they really do. These companies bring in billions of dollars worldwide. So could you just walk us through why and how do these scams work?

You know, mentioning these people knowing personal details about someone's life to know exactly how to target them. How are they finding out if someone is wealthy or if someone's lonely? There's so many of these personal details that I would love to know how they know.

I get scam texts like this all the time, and I don't think about them twice. But to learn about the whole cycle of harm behind that and that the bigger victim is likely the person who's texting me, I was really shocked.

Wow. I feel like people don't know that they're researching you as a real person and not just getting someone's number. That's crazy. Yeah.

Wow. I mean, I guess I'm wondering what you think the reason was for Charlie to agree to work with Dev and the syndicate instead of, you know, just going to law enforcement at the very beginning of finding everything out.

I mean, that's every girl's dream to go to your boyfriend's wedding.

Yeah, it's kind of mysterious. It's super saturated to the point where her skin looks orange. And you just kind of see her from behind wearing a short white dress. And it looks like it's meant to be intriguing. And the caption says, the sky is the limit with an exclamation point, which... Has me wondering, what are you talking about? Yeah, man. I mean, Priscilla is an enigma.

Yeah, but they always lose the plot at some point. Like the line between selfless and selfish is a lot greater than you might think.