Sean Illing

And he says, you know, JFK is the first TV president, but TV was still fairly new, and every new medium bears the stamp of the one it's sort of overthrowing. But by the time you get to 1980, TV has really transformed the culture. And by the time we get to Reagan, he says it's no longer... Or the question is no longer, do I agree with that guy? It's do I like him?

And he says, you know, JFK is the first TV president, but TV was still fairly new, and every new medium bears the stamp of the one it's sort of overthrowing. But by the time you get to 1980, TV has really transformed the culture. And by the time we get to Reagan, he says it's no longer... Or the question is no longer, do I agree with that guy? It's do I like him?

And that's the thing that still dominates our politics. It's vibes and feelings and impressions. And Postman noticed that with Reagan, that he was wildly popular despite people actually, when you drill down, not liking his policies really at all. And why was that? Well, it's because they liked him on TV.

And that's the thing that still dominates our politics. It's vibes and feelings and impressions. And Postman noticed that with Reagan, that he was wildly popular despite people actually, when you drill down, not liking his policies really at all. And why was that? Well, it's because they liked him on TV.

And in that sense, it's not an overstatement to say that TV changed what it even meant to be a good candidate. And therefore, it changed the kinds of people who could be good candidates, the kinds of people who would even run for office in the first place. That's a change. It's so fundamental that it's almost more fundamental than ideology.

And in that sense, it's not an overstatement to say that TV changed what it even meant to be a good candidate. And therefore, it changed the kinds of people who could be good candidates, the kinds of people who would even run for office in the first place. That's a change. It's so fundamental that it's almost more fundamental than ideology.

I mean, it's just a complete transformation of how we do and practice politics that's I think hard to overstate, but it seems true to me. Do you think he's overstating that?

I mean, it's just a complete transformation of how we do and practice politics that's I think hard to overstate, but it seems true to me. Do you think he's overstating that?

It may be more about attention than optics, but again, it still feels like internet is, at least at this point, still just amplifying the culture that TV has. built. The internet is more individualistic, it's more immersive, but it is still very much anchored to that world that photography and TV built. But you watch politicians on Twitter, right?

It may be more about attention than optics, but again, it still feels like internet is, at least at this point, still just amplifying the culture that TV has. built. The internet is more individualistic, it's more immersive, but it is still very much anchored to that world that photography and TV built. But you watch politicians on Twitter, right?

I mean, they're pushing themselves in the same way that social media influencers do. You have a lot of politicians now who are basically just professional

I mean, they're pushing themselves in the same way that social media influencers do. You have a lot of politicians now who are basically just professional

posters and they're just they're on there to say things that will get engagement and that will trend and that's good for them to the extent that it gets people talking about them right i mean i guess that's somewhat different from tv let me try a theory out on you because

posters and they're just they're on there to say things that will get engagement and that will trend and that's good for them to the extent that it gets people talking about them right i mean i guess that's somewhat different from tv let me try a theory out on you because

I think that's right. You know, I... didn't come from the journalism world. As you know, you hired me. I was coming from the academic world. And so my first few years in this business was just me figuring out how to not suck at this. And many fine people on both sides would say I'm still figuring that out. But I started in September 2016. Right as Trump was really monopolizing our world.

I think that's right. You know, I... didn't come from the journalism world. As you know, you hired me. I was coming from the academic world. And so my first few years in this business was just me figuring out how to not suck at this. And many fine people on both sides would say I'm still figuring that out. But I started in September 2016. Right as Trump was really monopolizing our world.

And it was incredibly frustrating. He was exploiting us. He was exploiting our business model. And by us, I mean all of press, really. And we all kind of knew it, right? But it felt like we had no choice. I mean, I guess there's always a choice, but you know what I mean. And then I ended up writing a piece about this concept of flooding the zone and something kind of clicked for me.

And it was incredibly frustrating. He was exploiting us. He was exploiting our business model. And by us, I mean all of press, really. And we all kind of knew it, right? But it felt like we had no choice. I mean, I guess there's always a choice, but you know what I mean. And then I ended up writing a piece about this concept of flooding the zone and something kind of clicked for me.

Do you want to say what flooding the zone is? Yeah, you know, it's a phrase that was popularized by Steve Bannon. And, you know, it's basically a very 21st century way of doing propaganda where the purpose isn't to convince a society to believe the same thing. The point is to just flood it, overwhelm it.

Do you want to say what flooding the zone is? Yeah, you know, it's a phrase that was popularized by Steve Bannon. And, you know, it's basically a very 21st century way of doing propaganda where the purpose isn't to convince a society to believe the same thing. The point is to just flood it, overwhelm it.