Sebastian Junger

Right.

But what you have to do, any society, from a group of people

Like Comanche warriors in the hill country around Austin in 1840 or Ukraine or the U.S.

or Israel or any nation, right?

You have to figure out how to be a peace-loving society that can also defend itself.

And that's really – and then if you're going to defend yourself –

What is your obligation to defend your allies or your friends or even just on a strategic level countries where if they fall, then eventually the dominoes wind up?

And I don't know the answers to that, but that to me is like the strategic and moral question.

It's like where is that line where you have to defend something because eventually you're going to end up defending yourselves, right?

Well, there's always the possibility of a bad actor that's like, you know what?

I want those oil fields.

I want those diamond mines.

I want whatever.

Like there's all – and we've been that guy too sometimes, right?

And you're a strong, jacked-up guy who knows how to fight.

And if the world contained only peaceful men –

You wouldn't need to be.

You might want to be, but you wouldn't need to be.

But you're walking down the street, you know in your mind, I can defend my family and myself with my hands.

And I need to know that I can.