Shahroo Izadi

And in the same that... When you talk about use ups, can we just explain?

Absolutely.

So my background is largely in substance misuse treatment.

And so I was a recovery worker and I was learning how to be a recovery worker.

Essentially, I was helping... I was learning how to help people to stop drinking and taking other drugs.

abstinence-based because very much it was about prison work, it was about people who needed to get into the room.

Like Alcoholics Anonymous, like Narcotics Anonymous, there was nothing that we were helping people to moderate with at that point.

I wasn't working in harm reduction, I was working in stop, prison, social services, this is serious.

I started noticing who was doing well and why.

I started noticing the patterns.

People who had a program or had a structure and had identified their vulnerabilities and had identified with a humility, if I don't do this, this is likely to happen.

And I also noticed that it was the people who were able to identify the distinction between self-pity and self-compassion.

It was the people who were able to see their problematic behavior as a solution and to try to diversify their recovery capital, essentially.

What does that mean?

What it is that you've got to come back to.

So one of the ways it comes is from going to having a fellowship, having people who support you, sponsors, recovery-specific stuff, right?

So it's like recovery in the bank.

Recovery in the bank also insulates you so that if you lapse, the bounce back is quick.

Oh, okay.

Longer you're in recovery and you're reinforcing the importance of your recovery and diversifying it.