Shiv Malik

But of course, it's also their job to consider the practical issues.

So there's a bunch of mixed responses.

Look, this is such a big idea.

It's going to, in the end, draw quite heightened responses.

both on the negative and the positive side.

So across government, at first, you know, obviously people were simply bemused, bewildered, and wondered whether this is a kind of exercise in shifting the Overton window and whether we were serious.

But now I think they realise that we are serious and then they go, OK, well, hang on, let's consider this properly.

And I think there's enough there

That we're winning people over day by day.

I know that's the case.

Yeah, we've already, we've got a brilliant transport planner there.

His name's James Cleave, who's, again, done all his work for free, and he created 120-plus pages.

I had to edit them all, so I know it intimately.

But one of the bold things and radical things he said was, like, look, he lives in Milton Keynes, so he knows the issues with kind of a car-first transport strategy very well.

He said two things.

First of all, look, our goal is 80% of trips...

The modality should be that it's public transport in some way or another, sustainable transport, right?

So there's a bicycling or walking or tram or train or metro, etc.

Fine, that's quite a bold goal.

So it's not car.