Sian Pattenden

And she fits in with that.

And I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it can go with some American rock bands into pomposity and into sort of cliche where it's just also terribly my art.

Just have a drink, forget about it, love.

But that seriousness breeds a lot of...

The hangers-on.

And you can see why those rock stars, sometimes it gets more extreme and they go quite mental because they're enabled by all that middle management hanging on, go, you are so important, you are so serious, you're a cultural icon, you are a voice of a nation.

And that's why they go really, really mental, where I think we're better at keeping ourselves in check.

Ooh, I've had a bit of a funny time, a bit famous.

I'll have a sit down rather than go and do something a little bit heinous like Americans do.

Poor thing.

It could have been worse.

It could have been worse.

Look at what other people are writing about.

But if she hadn't demanded to be taken seriously, if she'd taken that out, she wouldn't have had a book out.

She wouldn't have pushed to have this out.

And this is a really important book.

And it's a precursor for so much that went after it that you go, all right, OK, I get it.

It's fine then.

Yeah, it's fine.

Yeah, but it does anyway.