Simba

And A, like I think you're right in terms of being conditioned that as a leader, you're supposed to act this way.

But also, I think there was also a fear that if I opened up and I was like, okay, I'm struggling with this, then my influence or how people viewed me will be negatively impacted.

which will impact productivity.

But without the right tools, it's almost like starts building up to be more stressful and take more maybe maladaptive ways to deal with it, which makes, which made me like less effective than I could have been.

So for leaders, how can they break through?

Because I can, even if I'm listening to you right now, will I go to my team and be like, I'm going to open up?

I'm still feeling that resistance.

How can I maybe take it?

And I'm wondering, talking about psychological safety, right?

Employees look to their leaders to create psychological safety, but who creates psychological safety for the leader?

Is it kind of their responsibility to figure that out?

I love that.

I really actually love that.

And when we think about burnout at any level,

Is it more tied to identity and self-worth or is it usually just workload?

So if, let's say, someone is facing burnout, but they're hiding it, they're suppressing their emotions, but they're still able to function at a high level, how does that shape the environment around them?

And I'm thinking of a leadership course that I just finished and one of the phrases they used was leadership, leaders bring the weather.

And talking about the idea about emotional contagion that however well or unwell you're feeling as a leader, the people around you are going to feel it and it's going to affect their performance, whether they're aware of it or not.

Right.

And I'm just thinking as uncomfortable as opening up can be, not opening up is...