Steph McGovern

But how did he get money out then?

But with someone like Bezos, if you're saying that he didn't take an income, he didn't take dividends, how did he then, where did the money come from in terms of how he could still spend loads of money and have loads of money?

But then if you borrow money, you have to pay interest, but assume the interest is less than what you would pay in tax is what you're saying.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

No, I properly pay my taxes.

But the point you make as well, I guess to summarise a bit, so what you're saying is part of this growth has come from the fact that they've got more powerful so they can be part of controlling the system here too.

So it's kind of like gaming the system, which gives them greater power, greater wealth and then greater power again.

It totally makes, you know, it sounds like common sense to do that.

But how would you value the wealth?

Because if we're saying these are people who cleverly play the system legally, they do it, where they can, you know, look as if they don't have any income, surely they'll find ways to make their wealth not look as

big as it is, and also how do you value some of their wealth in terms of if you've got an art collection or if you've got a tech company where the shares are volatile.

How can you do that because, as you say, they've got the power so they can play the system on that front?

Like an exit tax.

For a number of years.

Is that practically and legally possible, though, to bring in?

Because if you did, wouldn't everyone, as soon as it started being talked about, just disappear?

Because that's what we see every time we talk about what's going to happen in the budget.

Before anyone knows anything, people will make decisions based on speculation.

Otherwise, what else can you do?