Steven Bartlett

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Karen, I often try and steer conversations, but in this situation, I feel like it's probably my responsibility to follow.

So with that in mind, I'm going to ask you, where does this journey begin and where should we be starting if we're talking about the subjects of empire of AI, AI generally, artificial intelligence?

And also I'd say, one thing I'm really keen to do in this conversation, which is I often see in conversations is left out, is let's assume that our viewers know nothing about AI.

So they don't know what scaling laws are or GPUs or compute or whatever.

And let's try and keep this as simple as we possibly can in terms of language or explain all the complicated language so that we can bring as much people with us as we possibly can.

Where should we start?

I mean, speaking about different definitions through time, in 2015, in a blog post that Sam Altman wrote before OpenAI was officially announced, he explicitly outlined the existential risk by saying, "...development of superhuman machine intelligence is probably the greatest threat to the continued existence of humanity.

There are other threats that I think are more certain to happen, for example, an engineered virus, but AI is probably the most likely way to destroy everything."

Yeah.

Ten years ago, Musk was going on podcasts, saying, tweeting, whatever, that the greatest existential risk to humanity was AI.

Yeah.

And are you saying that Sam Altman manipulated Musk?

Because Elon did end up donating a huge amount of money to OpenAI and co-founding it, I believe, with Sam Altman.

So in 2015, Sam Altman is writing these blog posts saying this is one of the greatest existential threats.

At the same time, in 2015, Musk is doing some very famous speeches at the time.

At MIT, he said that AI was the biggest existential threat and compared developing AI to summoning the demon.

And what you're saying here is you're saying that Sam Altman was just mirroring the language that Elon was using to get Elon involved in OpenAI.

And later it appears, and again, there's a legal case taking place now, that Sam might have muscled Elon out in some capacity.

So it sounds like Sam again managed to persuade someone to do something.