Steven Bonnell (Destiny)
speaker
516 appearances
1 recordings
1 series
first heard Mar 2024
last heard Mar 2024
Steven Bonnell (Destiny)’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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I also do, actually.
Can I respond to something relating to the Lebanon War? I looked up the book that he got this from and what the quote was from. It sounds cold to say it, but war is tragic and civilians die. There is no war that this has not happened in in the history of all of humankind.
The statement that Israel might take care not to target civilians is not incompatible with a diary entry from someone who said they saw civilians getting killed.
I think that sometimes we do a lot of weird games when we talk about international humanitarian law or laws that govern conflict, where we say things like civilians dying is a war crime or civilian homes or hospitals getting destroyed is necessarily a war crime or is necessarily somebody intentionally targeting civilians without making distinctions between military targets or civilian ones.
I think that when we analyze different attacks or when we talk about the conduct of the military, I think it's important to understand that.
Like, prospectively, from the unit of analysis of the actual military committing the acts, what's happening and what are the decisions being made, rather than just saying retrospectively, oh, well, a lot of civilians died, not very many military people died, comparatively speaking, so... It must have been war crimes, especially when you've got another side.
I'll fast forward to Hamas that intentionally attempts to induce those same civilian numbers because Hamas is guilty of any war crime that you would potentially accuse. And this is according to Amnesty International, people that Norm loves to cite.
Hamas is guilty of all of these same war crimes, of them failing to take care of the civilian population, of them essentially utilizing human shields to try to fire rockets free from attack. Essentially, yes.
I'm just saying that essentially, in terms of how international law defines it, not how Amnesty International defines it, but Amnesty International describes times of human shielding, but they don't actually apply the correct international legal standard.
I know, absolutely. You haven't the clues. I absolutely don't know. You haven't the clues. I absolutely don't. But you can't find it on Wikipedia. I'm just saying, I'm just saying, believe it or not, Norm. You can't find it on Wikipedia. The entire Geneva Convergence is all on Wikipedia. It's a wonderful website.
But I'm just saying that on the Hamas side, if there's an attempt to induce this type of military activity, attempt to induce civilian harm, that it's not just enough to say like, well, here's a diary entry where a guy talks about how tragic these attacks are.
I'll give you – you know who for me is a perfect example? Well, wait. Hold on. We don't need examples. No. Go ahead. The false equivalency of the two sides is astounding.
When Hamas kills civilians in a surprise attack on October 7th, this isn't because they are attempting to target military targets and they happen to stumble into a giant festival of people that – Well, they did happen to stumble into it. They did, but when they stumbled into it, it wasn't an issue of trying to figure out a military target or not. They weren't failing in distinction.
There wasn't a proportionality assessment done. It was just to kill civilians.
Sure. But I'm saying that the Hamas targeting of incivilities is different than the incidental loss of life that occurs when Israel does. You know, genocide is the intentional mass murder. Genocide is an entirely separate claim.
I don't believe it does. You've written about it yourself. When you say historical, do you mean like in the 40s to the 60s? I would say from the 30s of the last century to the 20s of this century.
But he understood that one is deliberate and one isn't.
No, no. He was speaking facts. The Hamas guys who attacked the Kibbutzim, apart from the attacks on the military sites, when they attacked the Kibbutzim, were out to kill civilians. And they killed family after family, house after house. The Israeli attacks on Hamas installations.
You know better.
I don't know better. No, you don't know Israeli pilots. That's the problem. Thank God. No, you don't know Israeli pilots. I know.
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