Steven Hahn

You think about a variety of what one scholar has called authoritarian enclaves, not only in the South, but in other parts of the United States, where there were hierarchies of power. that were long existing, and that were supported by a lot of people because they basically saw benefits that came from it.

You think about a variety of what one scholar has called authoritarian enclaves, not only in the South, but in other parts of the United States, where there were hierarchies of power. that were long existing, and that were supported by a lot of people because they basically saw benefits that came from it.

And I think one of the things we have to understand about illiberalism and illiberal communities or sensibilities is that there was a lot of in them that was satisfying. I mean, when people who were in the Klan in the 1920s were interviewed later, they couldn't understand. I mean, I'm talking about ordinary people like in Indiana, which was a state that was pretty much dominated by the Klan.

And I think one of the things we have to understand about illiberalism and illiberal communities or sensibilities is that there was a lot of in them that was satisfying. I mean, when people who were in the Klan in the 1920s were interviewed later, they couldn't understand. I mean, I'm talking about ordinary people like in Indiana, which was a state that was pretty much dominated by the Klan.

They didn't see themselves as being involved in an extremist organization. They saw themselves involved in an organization that was reinforcing community ideas, that was providing for recreation, that was embedding notions about what it means to be an American, a white person, a Christian. They may not even articulate it that way except for being a Christian.

They didn't see themselves as being involved in an extremist organization. They saw themselves involved in an organization that was reinforcing community ideas, that was providing for recreation, that was embedding notions about what it means to be an American, a white person, a Christian. They may not even articulate it that way except for being a Christian.

So I think one of the things we need to understand is that it's not simply those moments of rage that— that we can identify and then ask, why does that happen? It's a way of life that can go on in very prosaic ways until they're being threatened, and then they erupt.

So I think one of the things we need to understand is that it's not simply those moments of rage that— that we can identify and then ask, why does that happen? It's a way of life that can go on in very prosaic ways until they're being threatened, and then they erupt.

But we need to understand the day-to-day lives that are created, that bring people together, that provide them with all sorts of meaning in their lives. And I think one of the things that...

But we need to understand the day-to-day lives that are created, that bring people together, that provide them with all sorts of meaning in their lives. And I think one of the things that...

is important about recognizing, say, illiberalism as a important current and field of force is that we have a tendency of looking at the disruptions of the liberal tradition as simply a backlash, as angry people who are venting, their fury, which doesn't really have a lot of substance and things can go back to normal easily. And I think that that's a serious mistake.

is important about recognizing, say, illiberalism as a important current and field of force is that we have a tendency of looking at the disruptions of the liberal tradition as simply a backlash, as angry people who are venting, their fury, which doesn't really have a lot of substance and things can go back to normal easily. And I think that that's a serious mistake.

Well, you know, you use the word fantasy, and I think that's a very good one because in 2016, I think there was a sense, first of all, that there was a sense that there was no way he was going to win. But even when he won, I think there was a sense that this was a very unusual, very toxic phenomenon that once you defeat him, would be defeated again.

Well, you know, you use the word fantasy, and I think that's a very good one because in 2016, I think there was a sense, first of all, that there was a sense that there was no way he was going to win. But even when he won, I think there was a sense that this was a very unusual, very toxic phenomenon that once you defeat him, would be defeated again.

Now, obviously, we've learned that this is not the case. And, you know, I remember shortly after he was inaugurated in 2017, there was a big demonstration in Los Angeles, and someone was carrying a sign which was, I can't believe I'm still protesting this shit. And the answer to that is you're always going to be protesting this shit because there are no final victories of anything.

Now, obviously, we've learned that this is not the case. And, you know, I remember shortly after he was inaugurated in 2017, there was a big demonstration in Los Angeles, and someone was carrying a sign which was, I can't believe I'm still protesting this shit. And the answer to that is you're always going to be protesting this shit because there are no final victories of anything.

But I think it's also important for us to recognize that politics are very volatile. that people's political sensibilities do not fit into very neat boxes. You know, when Bernie Sanders was running in 2016, there were more than a few people who said that Bernie Sanders would be someone who would be very appealing and that, you know, they ended up voting for Trump.

But I think it's also important for us to recognize that politics are very volatile. that people's political sensibilities do not fit into very neat boxes. You know, when Bernie Sanders was running in 2016, there were more than a few people who said that Bernie Sanders would be someone who would be very appealing and that, you know, they ended up voting for Trump.

But, you know, somehow or other, Sanders also touched on them in ways that they found very significant, that he understood.

But, you know, somehow or other, Sanders also touched on them in ways that they found very significant, that he understood.