Steven Holloway

Wow.

just sounds like the best get together ever with your old friends you haven't seen in so long doing this.

There's a lot of big personalities in that group, a lot of alphas.

Who's holding court?

Like, is everyone kind of gathered around a main storyteller?

Sir Graham was.

I've never seen Steve Hansen in motion.

And I think that's going to be part of the beauty of this episode is sort of taking us behind the scenes because we only see him from the press conferences and the media stuff.

We'll be right back after this short break.

That was quite a good shag.

I spoke to Steve Chew in the build up to this and I asked him for, you know, what's some good stories about Shandy?

And he said, well, you can't let him get away without explaining when you had the number 16 on the field against South Africa in 2013.

So I think I might start there and get your perspective.

What happened there?

That's great behind-the-scenes detail of the relationships and the importance.

And I think that's going to come through throughout the chat.

Steve mentioned that it actually stands out because it was one of the only bungles across your whole career, which speaks to how well you ran the team and how few mistakes you made, which I think is an important detail to add.

But keen to go back to the start and want to sort of build a picture of Darren Chand and how you became in front of us today.

And we had a chat with your sister, Maria, who is herself an incredibly accomplished lawyer with her own law firm.

And she shared something with us that I want to read.