Steven Rinella

Right.

How do we know what, what hunters are getting?

What's coming off the land?

What is big?

What is little?

They had an idea and it wasn't entirely wrong that you could tell the health of a population of, of wild animals by whether or not it was producing large specimens, right?

Like all the things need to be happening properly for a, for a, you know, uh, whatever.

for a patch of ground in north carolina to produce seven eight year old big white tails like a lot of good things need to be happening you need to be taking the right steps to do that so they felt and i'm simplifying something but the genesis of the idea was by keeping track of the size of animals coming off the landscape we might be able to gauge the health of the ecosystem

right?

Even before some of those words are being used.

So to do that, they, they established a scoring system and the scoring system kind of went on to have, it still serves its purpose, but it went on to have a life of its own.

And so a lot of guys now might look and they might say, Oh, Boone and Crockett.

And in their head, they're not thinking wildlife conservation.

They're thinking it's the people that made the scoring system, right?

Okay.

What, what,

With that context or understanding that history, can you explain, is there a parallel story with IGFA or was it sort of reverse engineered that it was all about the numbers and became about the conservation?

But were you – take that example of Bluefin Tuna.

What was your awareness – like what was the alarm bell for you?

When Bluefin Tuna started to drop off, what year was that when they really started to drop off?