Susan Rice

Article 5, an attack on one is an attack on all, is when we were hit by al-Qaeda on 9-11 and the allies came to our defense and fought with us for 20 years in Afghanistan.

And so the idea that we are safer, stronger or healthier in any way, shape or form when it is, you know, Fortress America, isolationists, no allies and hated and distrusted by everyone else in the world.

You know, I'd like to have a debate with whoever you're talking to.

No, but they're fundamentally they're wrong.

Not thinking rationally.

They're not.

I think, look, Europe is, as a bloc, our largest trading partner, right?

We can do enormous damage to each other that would be mutually destructive.

You remember there used to be, in the nuclear time, a mutually assured destruction?

You know, that's what we're talking about.

So, you know, we can hurt them.

They can hurt us.

Nobody benefits from that.

That's exactly the benefit.

Like for China.

Right.

China.

That's what Trump's giving them by alienating Europe.

I think my summary statement is that domestically and internationally, Trump wants to take the United States back to the 19th century.

So internationally, that's a world in which you had great powers with their spheres of influence and economic barriers between these spheres.