Tahlia Isaac

And there's also a lot of joy.

There's also women laughing and lifting each other up and like cooking cakes for each other or, you know, giving them a hug if they've had a really hard phone call or advocating for somebody else who can't advocate for themselves or helping new arrivals into the prison, like going, this is how this is, this, this, this.

Like they, there's the pain, but then there's also the like strength and

Well, I mean, there was women that I was in a max security facility, like in 22-hour lockdowns into a two-by-four-meter cell who had driven without a license.

I'm going, sorry, what?

Like, so?

So?

I don't understand.

Why are you in prison?

That's not a thing.

Surely that's not a thing.

But it was.

It was, you know.

I mean, their mom's trying to get their kids to school.

They've lost their license for speeding or they've never had a license, but they need to get their kids in.

anywhere they need to go or they need to get to work.

And so on top of being in prison for such a weird, arbitrary thing, they're also removed from their kids.

But I also see, you know, like leaders in remote communities, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities, like matriarchs of those communities being removed from those communities and put into prisons.

And they ultimately, they don't even live by

like the way that people in Sydney live.