Tara Mohr

And then the way they defined was that they had surveyed women and they were like, they literally said like, do you want to climb the ladder at your organization?

And so everyone said no.

And I'm like, that's because women don't like climbing ladders.

That's not what motivates us.

If they had just asked the question a little different, you know, would you like to run your team in a more equitable and useful way than it's being run right now?

Would you like to have a bigger impact with your company's mission?

Would you like to

be able to make real change in the company, they would have gotten totally different answers.

Well, I know you might not.

You, I don't know if you'll relate to this answer.

You might not like it.

I would say, I would say, I would say that it's more that that is a boring term.

It's just that men have been socialized and needing to care about that for status.

I don't think anyone just, because if you didn't know what the ladder, the company's ladder, like what that company was creating, I don't know how much you would care about that either.

I don't know about that.

Whether we got more comfortable.

I think that is one of your gifts is that you do have a real comfort with that and you're giving women different kind of permission around that.

I think for a lot of women, the way, the route that sort of makes, makes them feel compelled to move into leadership has to do with impact and

Absolutely.

I think I think that's exactly it is that as a society and going back to that transition team idea, we are having trouble holding both at once.