Te Ururoa Flavell

They need to be at about 34%, 35%.

And they don't look as if they're going to be anywhere near getting that, even if they were at that position, incidentally, you know, about a year ago.

But there are too many people who are too fastidious to vote reform at the moment.

So they will need some help, I think.

I'm trying to imagine him rising like a phoenix or a goldfish.

It's just... He has lost respect from the country and Parliament.

We're losing...

Mike, we're losing.

It's terrible.

I don't really know what to do with myself.

We're losing 1-0.

Yeah, it's the second leg.

It means we're out if we don't get an equaliser very, very soon.

It's terribly depressing, yeah.

Well, it doesn't necessarily sit with Māori MPs as well.

It happens in mainstream parties.

But, I mean, you know, in this particular case, she had pretty much not too many options, being ostracised in a sense by the party, albeit the court case went in her favour.

So she didn't have too many choices, but she sort of tried that hook of the Taitokero, which may well sort of give her a hand.

And there's an element of hope because, you know,

One or two parties could be the difference at the next election, but on the other hand, as you say, history is pretty much against the small parties, in particular those who are sort of wrapped around one individual.