Terry Gross

Are there other political goals he wants to accomplish through shutdowns?

Russell Vote talks about the Constitution and democracy, but he supported Trump's false claim that Trump won the 2020 election.

What does that say about Vote, do you think?

You learned through previously unreported recordings of briefings by the think tank that he started during the Biden presidency, Citizens for Renewing America, that vote had pressured members of the Freedom Caucus to ban critical race theory in schools.

Where does that figure into his larger political plan to expand the executive office?

We have to take another break here.

So let me reintroduce you.

My guest is Andy Kroll, an investigative reporter for ProPublica covering the Justice Department and the judiciary.

He has an article in The New Yorker in collaboration with ProPublica about Russell Vogt titled Donald Trump's Deep State Wrecking Ball.

We'll be right back.

This is Fresh Air.

Russell Vogt describes himself as a Christian nationalist.

And he says, of course, I describe myself that way.

I'm a Christian and I'm a nationalist.

But when you say Christian nationalist, the implication is or the definition is usually that you want to define America as a Christian nation.

So to what extent does Russell Vogt want to define America as a Christian nation?

Like what is does he have a vision of what a Christian nation would be?

So Vogt calls himself a radical constitutionalist.

What does he mean by that?

What do you think are the permanent or at least the long-term changes that vote will leave behind?