Tom Digan

And at that point, this is the day after Christmas 2019, came to the board and proposed that we needed to make some pretty significant leadership changes in order to really reset the business.

And as part of that,

We had some changes at the executive level, including naming Greg CEO.

Felt like at that moment, we had this sense of we can go build this thing now.

Our problems were hardly solved, but it felt like the problems were now worth solving.

Just felt like there was nothing we weren't willing to do to make it work.

I think that's why it was appealing to meet someone else that felt that way, that was going to be in that foxhole.

I should have learned that lesson and said, I need to not raise money from friends and family.

Instead, they were the only people at that moment that I needed to double and triple down.

You just had to go even further all in.

Not sure I would do it again or recommend other people take that path.

Why not?

You have to just know deep down that you'd be willing to do whatever it takes, including some very difficult conversations with your...

wife and you're building a family and you're leaving a lot on the table on a much easier, cushier hedge fund country club type existing here in the Northeast.

And you want to go and do something hard.

Turns out it's pretty fucking hard.

I think that dynamic is why Ladder's here.

It's literally late March 2020 when we have zeroed in on the concept for this new product.

And we're having to go fully remote.

The team's new.