Tristan Harris

And original music by Ryan and Hayes Holliday.

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It really does make a difference in helping others join this movement for a more humane future.

And if you made it all the way here, let me give one more thank you to you for giving us your undivided attention.

Yeah, well, first, it's just good to be back with you, Sam, because you really, in a way, helped launch my ability to speak on these topics with the 60 Minutes interview that I did in 2017.

And then I remember recording in that same hotel

Our first podcast, which actually really got a lot of attention back in the day about persuasive technology.

And in a way about the baby AI that was social media, that was just pointed at your kid's brain, trying to figure out which photo, video, or tweet to put in front of your nervous system.

And as we know that that little baby AI was enough to create the most anxious and depressed generation in our lifetimes, was enough to break down shared reality.

polarized political parties much further, changed the incentives of the entire media environment, basically colonized the entire world from that baby AI.

But to get to your question, so how did we get into AI?

First of all, I wasn't like wanting to switch into it.

It was that

I got calls from people inside the AI labs in January of 2023.

This is like a month and a half after the ChatGPT had launched, I think.

And these were friends I knew in the tech industry who were now at AI labs.

And they basically said, Tristan, there's a huge step function in AI capabilities that's coming.

The world is not ready.