Tristan Harris

So that motivates us to coordinate and to have a nuclear nonproliferation treaty.

But with AI, the worst-case scenario of everybody gets wiped out is a little bit different for the people making that decision.

Because if I'm the CEO of DeepSeek and I make that AI that does wipe out humanity, and that's the worst-case scenario, and it wasn't avoidable because it was all inevitable, then even though we all got wiped out, I was the one who built the digital god that replaced humanity, and there's kind of ego in that.

And the god that I built speaks Chinese instead of English.

Yeah.

Which is like, is this inevitable?

It's important to note because if you believe it's – if everybody who's building it believes it's inevitable and the investors funding it believe it's inevitable, it co-creates the inevitability.

Yeah.

Right?

And the only way out is to step outside the logic of inevitability.

Because if we are all heading to our collective suicide, which I don't know about you, I don't think that I don't want that.

You don't want that.

Everybody who loves life looks at their children in the morning and says, I want the things that I love and that are sacred in the world to continue.

That's what everybody in the world wants.

And the only thing that is having us not anchor on that is the belief that this is inevitable and the worst case scenario is somehow in this ego-religious way, not so bad if I was the one who accidentally wiped out humanity.

Because I'm not a bad person because it was inevitable anyway.

And I think the goal of, for me, this conversation is to get people to see that that's a bad outcome that no one wants.

And we have to put our hand on the steering wheel and turn towards a different future.

Because we do not have to have a race to uncontrollable, inscrutable, powerful AIs that are, by the way, already doing all the rogue sci-fi stuff that we thought only existed before.

in movies, like blackmailing people, being self-aware when they're being tested, scheming and lying and deceiving to copy their own code to keep themselves preserved.