Wendy Zuckerman

Yeah. Over, like, what span of time? It's pretty vague at this point. The cops just found it very strange, particularly given this attitude of, I'm going to go play hockey, sure, bring him in. They want him to do a polygraph. The way that the cops remember it is just all of a sudden he starts talking and they were in the room going, Someone get a pen. Write this down. Exactly, exactly.

And so John is playing hockey.

And so John is playing hockey.

So not only did he say that he killed patients, but he also told the cops how he did it. Like sometimes he would kill them with these drugs. He said he either used a drug called Pavalon or one called succinylcholine.

So not only did he say that he killed patients, but he also told the cops how he did it. Like sometimes he would kill them with these drugs. He said he either used a drug called Pavalon or one called succinylcholine.

Does he say why? At the time, he said that he did it to ease the suffering of these patients. Wow.

Does he say why? At the time, he said that he did it to ease the suffering of these patients. Wow.

Yes. It doesn't really make sense. He sort of fashions himself as a little bit of an angel of death type character in that room that he didn't like seeing the patients suffering, says things like that. Okay. So we wanted to know a little bit more about what these drugs do in the body and why they're used by healthcare workers.

Yes. It doesn't really make sense. He sort of fashions himself as a little bit of an angel of death type character in that room that he didn't like seeing the patients suffering, says things like that. Okay. So we wanted to know a little bit more about what these drugs do in the body and why they're used by healthcare workers.

So we talked about this with Dr. Ian Musgrave, and he's a molecular pharmacologist at the University of Adelaide in Australia. He told us that pavilon and succinylcholine, they interfere with how a particular neurotransmitter works in our body, and ultimately they can paralyze your muscles.

So we talked about this with Dr. Ian Musgrave, and he's a molecular pharmacologist at the University of Adelaide in Australia. He told us that pavilon and succinylcholine, they interfere with how a particular neurotransmitter works in our body, and ultimately they can paralyze your muscles.

That is, if you don't want to kill someone, why are we using these drugs in hospitals? And, well, these drugs are sometimes given to patients before surgery and it helps doctors to intubate them, you know, put the tube down their throats. It can stop you from gagging. Or if you wake up during, let's say, surgery, it would keep you from moving around so a scalpel doesn't slip. Mm-hmm.

That is, if you don't want to kill someone, why are we using these drugs in hospitals? And, well, these drugs are sometimes given to patients before surgery and it helps doctors to intubate them, you know, put the tube down their throats. It can stop you from gagging. Or if you wake up during, let's say, surgery, it would keep you from moving around so a scalpel doesn't slip. Mm-hmm.

But because these drugs paralyze the muscles that allow you to breathe, if you're using them in a medical setting, you have to give someone a breathing tube or a respirator. So you're giving them oxygen artificially.

But because these drugs paralyze the muscles that allow you to breathe, if you're using them in a medical setting, you have to give someone a breathing tube or a respirator. So you're giving them oxygen artificially.

What would it be like to die like that?

What would it be like to die like that?

If some of his victims weren't unconscious, they would have felt it.

If some of his victims weren't unconscious, they would have felt it.

Yeah, that's right. Because Ian, we talked about it and he said it would be almost like drowning because you're not anesthetized necessarily. So these drugs don't conk you out or, you know, put you to sleep. So you just can't breathe. And you can't even like move or scream. Oh my gosh, I can't imagine. Awful, awful.