Zac Seidler

100%.

Men need to realize their capacity.

They need to realize their potential.

And that's my main issue with the tenor of much of this conversation, the idea around toxic masculinity as an example.

You are born broken and deficient in some ways and there is nothing you can do about it.

Precisely.

Exactly.

And if you want to engage men in this movement, if you want to make them feel like they are the solution, not the problem, we need to get to a point where you can actually have those conversations with them that says, what do you want to be?

How do you want a father?

What does that actually look like?

And so we've been pushing at Movember to build in routine mental health checks for dads because at the moment you're a spare part in that entire process.

You're not the subject.

You're not a patient.

You are just the furniture in some ways.

And many men want to be a part.

They're in the room.

And we talk about the fact that men don't seek help.

I came to every single appointment possible and nobody looked me in the eye.

Like, what does that do for your sense of belonging?

The idea that you're supposed to be here is that you want to be an equal caregiver, but actually we're not going to talk to you.