Zac Seidler

Don't assume, ask.

And I think that parents, the teachers, that, you know, just community members across the board are not sitting in the mud and not curious about the internal worlds of young men.

They are just doing all of this assumption making and it is leading to this very crisis-oriented language that has no solutions.

It's an incredible idea, Richard, which is that we know the best way...

to get these guys off is to actually show them that they're being taken for a ride and to highlight to them, break down the model and say, all right, Andrew Tate did this and then he did this and suddenly you're buying crypto and suddenly you're on his peptides and you're in his academy and you spent thousands of your parents' dollars.

And what did you get for it?

Do you actually feel better?

How are you improving as a man?

And having a conversation with them that is not judgmental

Because that's the really hard thing here, which is like you idiot is a very easy way into the conversation.

It's like, let's shake them out of this.

That will never work because they're in so deep.

The ideology is so real.

They need to have a lifeline that is as...

as exciting as consumable as promising to them as what they are being offered here and at the moment i don't think that we're competing in any way we should be learning from this we should be learning from the motivations that drive young men in we should be seeking to actually access those and answer them in new places without all of the toxic crap that comes with it great to speak with you zach thank you very much for having this conversation it's been fascinating thanks richard