#48: A Fox News Host’s Formula for Winning Arguments | Jessica Tarlov
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What is Jessica Tarlov’s biggest conversion on The Five and why does it matter?
Alright, Jessica Tarlov. Quentin Tarantino said you have one of the hardest jobs that's out there. You're the lone moderate left-leaning voice on the five, most popular show on cable news on Fox. You are outnumbered four to one every time you go on television. So you've made a career of people disagreeing with you, you disagreeing with other people. And you just wrote an entire book about disagreement, how to do it better. It's called I Disagree. So I want to have you on to talk about how to have better conversations with people that you do not see eye to eye with. And I want to start here. What do you think the biggest conversion? you've had in your career is meaning you either converted another person or they converted you.
Biggest conversion. Um, so I'm gonna go not necessarily in a policy area, um, but in a more meta sense. And I think my biggest conversion is becoming an accepted part of the table on the five. And I don't think that that's just wearing people down where they're like, Oh, I've been emailing Suzanne Scott, our CEO, and like they still haven't fired her. I think that over time demonstrating what type of person I am, uh, what type of arguments that I make, and also critically what type of relationships I can foster with my co-host has made me part of this ensemble in a way that has been akin to a conversion for a lot of these people. And I do hear that, you know, whether I see it on social media or meeting folks out in the wild.
Um Where they s say I I didn't start out liking you very much. And I don't agree with a lot of what you say, um, but you make me think. And that is the biggest win of all for me. I just wanna open minds to the possibility that there is something out there that might be worth your time to listen to. And if that changes votes down the line, beautiful. Um, but it's a win in and of itself.
So that show has had people in your role in the past that didn't work always quite as long. And you've got this staying power and you've said that You basically get along with all of the other people on the show. Um, you've had a lot of people who are more right-leaning say, you know, like you just said, I don't dis I don't agree with everything you say, but you make me think, what do you think it is about you in particular and the arguments, the way you frame arguments or disagreements that is resonating with people.
I think that something that's going on with this particular iteration of the five that's working is that everybody has found their way to be feisty and also cooperative. And I think for folks who don't watch the show, and a lot of it gets consumed through clip culture, I'm very aware of the fact that majority of people who are fans of mine, especially left-leaning ones, might just see clips of me floating around and think that I'm like a democratic avatar that just shows up for 60 seconds and yells at Greg Gutfeld and tells him all the facts and figures and then, you know, pieces out. But there's a whole hour show going on where we cover topics that aren't even necessarily political in nature, you know, talking about AI, robot dogs and, you know, what what we did last night.
So I think that the secret sauce of it is really this feistiness. And that there isn't a feeling that anyone is tamping down what they really think about an issue. And that has always been the accusation, you know, going back to the Hannity and Combs days. So A Alan Combs was the original Fox News liberal and he Presented to a lot of people as too politically weak, that he was ceding too much ground to Sean. Um, and that that was by design in the way that Roger Ailes thought about that show. And what's different now, I think, and this is across the network and I think honestly across political discourse generally at this moment, that people are not Censoring the fullness of their political opinions necessarily.
The real work comes in and how you make that. palatable to people who you disagree with or just kind of acceptable almost. I I don't know if that's the right term for it, but there's a lot of work that goes into thinking about what you're gonna say, how you're gonna say it, and then also how it's going to be received and the reception of it, especially when you have these enormous audiences, like we have between three and a half and four million people who watch the show every day.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is Jessica Tarlov’s biggest conversion on The Five and why does it matter?
0:07–5:09
2
Are Americans really more divided and what evidence does Jessica cite?
5:09–10:26
3
How does Jessica make “the truth safe to hear” when she’s outnumbered on TV?
10:26–17:58
4
Why does she argue with averages instead of anecdotes, and how does that improve debates?
17:58–24:14
5
What are the best ways to frame numbers and keep arguments simple for a broad audience?
24:14–30:23
6
How can you be sharp without being cruel when discussing contentious topics?
30:23–35:25
7
When should you engage in a disagreement and when is it better to let it go?
35:25–40:55
8
What steps does Jessica suggest for Americans to start talking to each other again?
40:55–45:30
Speakers
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