2 Worlds Collide Podcast
#99 - Dean Burgess - Ex 2 Commando Operator Speaks on Ben Roberts-Smith, Immigration & Australia’s Future
12 May 2026
Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What insights does Dean Burgess share about his military career?
Hi guys, welcome back to Two Worlds Collide podcast. On today's episode we have ex-special forces two commando operator Dean Burgess. I hope you guys enjoy. That's how we kick off Two Worlds Collide podcast at the Bamford residence where no one knows where I live, thank God.
Yeah, not even me. I didn't even take any notice of the street names.
Well, that's it, man. That's because I had a bloody black paper bag over your head to make sure that you couldn't get any directions coming here from the airport.
It's the old interrogation after capture protocols.
That's it. But, mate, Dean Burgess, welcome to Two Old Squad Podcast. How are you going?
I'm well, mate. Thanks very much for having me. Very unexpected, but I'm grateful to be here.
Matt, very illustrious career in the military. Now, before we start talking about the issues happening in Australia right now, and there is going to be another podcast where you're going to delve very deep into your upbringing and your military history and, sorry, your military career. But that'll happen on the Zero Limits podcast with Matty Morrison.
So I don't want to steal too much thunder from that legend. And if you do want to listen to your story in depth, then in a couple of weeks time, just head over to the Matty Morrison Zero Limits podcast, giving him a shout out.
Yeah, mate, he's been chasing me for some time.
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Chapter 2: How has the treatment of Australian veterans changed over time?
I learned a lot of the soldiering skills there and really paved the way for –
the uh the special forces roles that we had later because the little three-hour mafia runs that runs that place yeah mate they run there they run the sas they're on two commando the three-hour mafia is a uh is is a real thing and to all those people that aren't military out there um there are a whole bunch of infantry units they go from one to eight nine rar and um
it's for some reason it just seems to be that three-hour dudes went from there to to commando and sas and they always stuck together like there's always a three-hour thing really stuck together and they always took care of their own even if they went to to commando ss there's just a thing about three-hour like maddie morrison three-hour myself three-hour yourself three-hour there's a whole bunch of people ben robert smith three-hour and uh yeah that's it there's a whole bunch of people that have come from three area um
My philosophy on that too, bro, is we're all light infantry, but it takes someone pretty stupid or special. It depends on how you look at it to want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane. So a little story about that is I grew up in a very small area in country New South Wales in the Snowy Mountains. People like to call it a town, but it's actually a village.
And for me, the first 12 times I was in an airplane, I jumped out of it 11 times. So I'd never been in an airplane before until my parachute course down in Nara at HMAS Albatross. So the first time I was in an airplane, I got thrown out the side of it.
Yeah, I still remember my first jump down there, obviously freshly at the unit. And I think I was only there for two or three weeks and they sent us straight down in Nara.
Yeah, I had a pretty similar... Pretty similar pathway. I was lucky because it had been like a six-month build-up because I have to fill the course out before they can send you down there. It's a cost-based thing. But, yeah, I got to Thrara in about two and a half weeks. Three weeks later, I was down at Nowra. And you miss out that whole bastardization period at three.
So I was there back in like 2004. So things were a lot different.
Yeah, that was your old school days.
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Chapter 3: What are the implications of the Ben Roberts-Smith situation?
But, yeah, I agree with the 18-year-old thing. In saying that, though, like... Under the ADF contract, the Commonwealth law situation, it's like, well, we know what we're signing up for. That should give us the right and the virtue to pursue our belief systems and what we're there for. It doesn't help if you do get sent home in a bag, but yeah, it's more palatable, I agree.
Yeah, it's just the easiest sell to the public at the end of the day. Yeah. And, yeah, I don't know. Obviously, the Afghan campaign has run its course and it's over now. And, you know, we fought there for 20 years to replace the Taliban with the Taliban. But it would have been nicer to get a bit more fighting experience out of the RAR.
I agree.
It would have strengthened the nation as well. We would have learned a lot more. And we would have had guys that would have stayed in.
Yeah, I totally agree. And that's one of the things that's come out of 2 Commando SAS, especially after all these allegations that have happened to the guys, is they've largely gutted the Special Operations Command and any kind of ability to retrain these guys. And SF operators, man, the government's spend on those boys, us boys, is huge. You know, I remember like... Tens of millions.
Yeah, tens of millions. You know, there was an old rumor when I was going through that... just to get you to the gate costs you $6 million. That covers your, obviously, your selection and then your Rio cycle, reinforcement cycle.
Everything, training, equipment.
Yeah, travel. Like ammunition.
And then you've got to pay the people that are going to train you.
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Chapter 4: How does immigration impact Australia's national identity?
We're going to be banging it in, you know. Yeah, it wasn't that way. Obviously, different battle space, different theater. But Afghanistan wasn't – there was no question why you're going there. Like, you're going to meet the bad dudes and you're going to be into it.
now hey what's your um because it's good to get someone on and i said this a few weeks ago in a post that i did you know we want to start pushing back against um the mainstream media that are trying to label our uh veterans of our hero veterans as war criminals and and um you know you're only seeing the likes of nick mckenzie over the past couple of months you know he says everything about brs and a whole bunch of veterans that went overseas but doesn't say boo about the isis bride's
or the ISIS terrorists coming back into the country now. The thing with the ISIS terrorists coming into the country, if Nick McKenzie were to go overseas and to investigate ISIS, they would separate his head from his shoulders quicker than he could have to do a hiccup. Yeah, mate.
And the thing that Nick McKenzie doesn't realize is that the likes of people like yourself and Ben Robert Smith who go over to kill these people, or if the likes of Nick McKenzie were to ever get seized by these people, the people that... the government would send to go free him are the people that he's trying to label as a war criminal. Okay.
And, you know, it just shows the nows of these and the arrogance and the disgust of Australia hating traits of the likes of Nick McKenzie and the ironic formula that he's decided to go after our veterans when... But in reality, these are the same very people that would save him from the monsters that are overseas. Now, we've seen this with our government. They are explicit. They have helped.
They have assisted these ISIS terrorists to come back into the country. Nick McKenzie says boo about this because he's a little wimpy coward. Now... I think he still wets the bed, that guy. Yeah, he would. He would. And, you know, he's...
um he's not even he's not even fit to carry carry the uh the names he he's not fit to carry the names and he's not fit to carry ben robert smith's workout bag yeah you know what i mean and uh this guy has no nails to come out or no backbone to write an article about the isis brides but he'll come after veterans now Hey, what's your thoughts with, you know, all these Nick McKenzie types?
So, you know, this is a, you're a veteran, you know, you're a veteran based person. You love this country. You've been over and fought for this country. How does it feel to have the likes of Nick McKenzie come after you, the veteran community?
It feels like they're trying to poison the society out from underneath us. Everyone wants to bang the drum and commercialise Anzac Day all the way back and promote World War I and World War II as heroes and all the things, but the same thing can't be applied to our generation of warfighters because of the media industrial complex. They're only interested in selling stories, whether...
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Chapter 5: What challenges do ISIS brides pose to national security?
I want to go to Special Forces. You know, what's your advice? And I'm like, look, I'm in two sides with it because after what we've gone through and what the boys have to still go through, I wouldn't honestly recommend going down that pathway because if you're going to get sent overseas to do a job that you've basically sacrifice your 20s for, man. Like, I spent all my 20s in the army.
Like, I didn't pop out the other side until I was in my 30s. So, like, as I mentioned, I joined early and then I spent my 20s there. Like, I could have been one of those retired uni students, you know. I could have a nice, cushy government job now.
Come out of uni broken, brainwashed.
Yeah, yeah, or go to uni and just become a prime minister with no real-world experience, you know. So, yeah, I tend to err on the side of get a trade. If you still want to join after, what's a trade for?
five or six years now i don't know underpaid again um which i could go on with about why we have such a job shortage or an issue with housing crisis in this country but um yeah look get a trade if you still desperately want to do that after you get your trade fill your boots but there used to be this cool thing in the army where you could go and do a trade
and you have to pay back some time it's called a rozo i believe a lot of my medic a lot of my combat medic people did it when i was younger it's just awesome it's awesome way to get a trade you go in for four years you have to give them back four years yeah and straight away you're on uh you're not on a not on a apprentice wage you're on like a normal uh military wage you're paid like an adult yeah you just got to give them the four years back but guess what when you give them the four years back you still get paid well
yeah man and like and you know like they talk about all these incentives like i think dohas was one when i was going around there it's like defense homeowners scheme or something i can't remember what it is now but you get low interest loans um after a certain category fee like a certain time in you get like a low interest loan you can then go and buy your first home which is pretty much unattainable now anybody is paying attention to the economy and
The volume of non-Australian people coming into this country that are just buying up all the houses.
If I have my way, houses will be attainable in a couple of years.
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Chapter 6: What is the mental toll of combat on veterans?
I would. And the thing is, too, when you just touched on it a second ago, I've lived a pretty comfortable life post-service. I wasn't silly with my money. And I could have just stayed out of the public space and just –
you know enjoyed my four children and just had a happy life with my my beautiful my beautiful partner and i can't sit idly by and just let it happen to the guys i just can't because as you as you mentioned like i signed on the dotted line i'm australia first i'm from new south wales country like it doesn't get any more country than where i'm from it's cold as shit there's nothing going on up there and you're just outdoor outside all the time that's that's the real deal um but
I couldn't sit by and just allow the media, the mainstream media, the Nick McKenzie's of the world, just to be given a green light with anything that he wants to talk about. And I have a little side quest here for you. I got myself into a little bit of trouble back in the day on my last rotation. I...
i wanted to bring home a souvenir i won't say what it was it's in the past now but um off the back of that i i was investigated by adfers and you know obviously the afp or arm of that and um i was very fortunate i was looked after very well by my rsm at the time and um after it all boiled down it was actually just a it was just a young digger being a dickhead which was myself you know why you were looked after by rsm though because he used to be a soldier
Yeah, that's true. And he climbed the ranks. He used to be a soldier. Yeah, that's true.
That's why he was one of us. Eventually, you know, back in the day, he was one of us.
Yeah, I won't say his name because I just don't know about the legalities and whatever, but everyone will know he was a stash man. He was a stash man at Tucumano at the time.
But yeah, off the back of that, after the ADFAS fell on their sword and AFP picked it up, a couple of months later, I actually got a phone call from this illustrious journalist asking questions about, hey, I'm aware of what you did and what you didn't do. Maybe we could talk about that in further detail to protect your identity now that you don't have that status anymore.
I was like, what are you saying to me here?
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Chapter 7: How does Dean Burgess view the future of Australia?
I'll never give up, man. I'll never give up anything for the guys.
I hope because there's obviously a lot of people that watch and listen to my podcast. I hope someone clips that bit up. I hope someone clips up that Nick McKenzie came to you in the early 2012s and the arrogance...
Do you want to come to Canberra and have a coffee with me? Yeah.
The story went. Yeah, yeah. Hasty obviously took that offer up, didn't he?
You know what, man? What's interesting about that? Must off. Fuck, Hasty, bro. He had a real shot. You know what? He had a real shot. Got a lot of us fooled, including myself. And it wasn't that I was fooled. It was just that.
Mate, he sat in that very chair.
Wow, see, I haven't gone back. I did know that he'd came, but I haven't gone back that far yet.
Sorry, jump in. I had a lot of people reach out to me over the past few months and be like, oh, Hasty came on your podcast. It's like, yeah, yeah, but that was back then. The reason I had Hasty on back then was because
he reached out to me when i started to go like that he said hey let's do a podcast i said yep no worries um didn't really do my research i was because i was pretty separated from the military world for a long long time i get it i stayed away i didn't i did not care about the military right i just stayed away and now i'm back into it because i'm back in the fight i feel happy again
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Chapter 8: What role does nationalism play in the current political landscape?
I just sort of came in and started hanging out with them a fair bit when we were living down in Cronulla. So, like, I've never really had any dealings with – That was the same transition for me too. With, like, SAS guys. Yeah. But, I mean, since I've started this podcast and started to speak out, the amount of SAS guys that have reached out and been like, dude –
Yeah, I like it because you know when you're in the unit, right? Or like you're in 2 Commando and there's SAS and then there's 3 Arrow guys. You're always just stuck to your unit and you're like, whoever's outside the unit, screw them.
Yeah, I've seen it sort of, yeah. It's very compartmentalised because even within 2 Commando, because we're a bigger unit than Perth, it was like there was guys that... you would see and know, but you had no interaction with them because you're in a different company. Not only that, you're in a different team and you're doing different roles.
So, you know, like when we talked about Scotty, how I ended up going on that trip for him, we'd never really interacted much before outside of, say, rugby or rugby league because I know Darwin Boy used to play Azru and stuff like that. And he's actually good friends with my best mate, Ben Jones, who he was Azru captain. Like he's way back with the Australian Army Rugby Union.
And that's how they know each other. And it's just sort of a weird triangle of the military complex about how you end up knowing someone through somebody else.
You always do, man. You always end up knowing someone. But yeah, man, the amount of people that have reached out to me over the past probably month and just been like, hey, man, thanks for standing up and saying something. It doesn't matter who you are or where you're from. If you went over there and did the job in some way, shape or form, there's a...
element of respect now and because we're so past the afghanistan era there's no more egos attached to it i agree man and you know what you mightn't see yourself as a leader but you you definitely are because like i've i've taken your lead and nowhere near the same levels but
As I said... You're probably a bit calmer as well.
Yeah, you're a lot deeper into this than I am. With my content, I sort of leave it open-ended for your own opinion. I just speak to what I know. I try not to tell another man's stories unless I've been given the okay for it. However, mine's a bit more like it's up to you to decide whether you like what I do or not, but I'm putting it out there. And the big thing for me was...
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