America, War, and the Myths We Still Believe (#321)
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What is the biggest myth about America’s role in the world?
What if Americans are wrong about America? We think America spent much of its history minding its own business and only got involved when the world forced us to. What if almost the opposite is true? Hi everyone, I'm Lynn Thoman, and this is Three Takeaways. On Three Takeaways, I talk with some of the world's best thinkers, business leaders, writers, politicians, newsmakers, and scientists. Each episode ends with three key takeaways to help us understand the world and maybe even ourselves a little better. Today I'm delighted to be with Robert Kagan. Bob is one of America's leading historians, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, and the author of Dangerous Nation and The Ghost at the Feast. He spent decades studying America's role in the world and challenging the story Americans tell about ourselves.
Bob, welcome to three takeaways.
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.
It is my pleasure. Bob, вот the biggest myth Americans believe about America's role in the world.
That Americans think that for the most part they're just sitting here minding their own business and then other countries come along and do things that either attack the United States in some way or upset it, and then Americans have to respond. When the reality, I think, as you suggested, is much different. The United States has been an expansionist power since the very beginning. In fact, since before even the revolution, it's been expansionist territorial. materially, commercially, and I would say in this vague sense, ideologically, in the sense that it has always shown some concern for the fate of fellow human beings on many different fronts.
Cuba, the Philippines, Nicaragua, Haiti, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Venezuela and Iran. And that's not even the full list.
Why has America intervened so often in other countries?
Why has America intervened so often and in so many parts of the world?
Well, I think if you compare the United States to other really great global powers in history, Great Britain, for instance, you would not think that the United States was intervening more frequently than they tend to do. When a nation becomes very powerful, it often uses power to achieve those goals. And I think the United States has been no different in that regard. Certainly some of the wars were portrayed as being Defensive, but they weren't all defensive. They all were in service to one or another American interest or set of beliefs that have often gotten Americans involved in other countries.
America often goes in thinking we can fix a problem and then leave. Why do we keep underestimating how hard that is?
Well, it's probably because uh and this is the way the United States is different from, say, the British Empire. When the British moved into some region of the world, they moved in for good. Whereas the Americans, even though America sometimes behaves like an empire, they have a very anti-imperial approach to the world. And they never think they're staying. Every time the United States goes in to, as you say, try to solve a problem or Address a crisis or et cetera, the assumption is that we'll go in and take care of that and get out right away. And often that has turned out not to be true. We have never left Korea. Obviously, we've never really pulled troops out of Germany and Japan. And so what you see is a record of sort of half-attempted, half-finished interventions.
How have U.S. interventions created unintended consequences and backlash?
Sometimes America's actions have consequences that we don't expect. How often has America helped create the very threats that we later had to fight?
Every conflict which may solve whatever problem that conflict was designed to solve and opens up new problems. I mean, just consider World War II. I don't think most people in America would doubt that World War II was the right war to fight, but one of the consequences of World War Two was the division of Europe and the imprisonment of the Eastern European countries under Soviet rule. And so every solution to one problem leads to other problems. Problems. So we're continually shocked that conflict continues to emerge, including by our own actions.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the biggest myth about America’s role in the world?
0:01–2:05
2
Why has America intervened so often in other countries?
2:05–3:43
3
How have U.S. interventions created unintended consequences and backlash?
3:43–6:34
4
Has American power made the world safer since World War II?
6:34–9:24
5
Why do Americans support wars at first and become disillusioned later?
9:24–12:08
6
What has America’s global leadership achieved, and how is its world order changing?
12:08–15:37
7
What does American history reveal about the country’s role in the world?
15:37–17:37
8
What are Robert Kagan’s three takeaways about war, peace, and American foreign policy?
17:37–20:02
Speakers
1 identifiedMore from 3 Takeaways™
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