Why AUKUS delivers second-hand subs
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Just one day after Jack McLennan's relationship fell apart, he vanished. I couldn't believe this was happening. Immediately, accusations started flying. You need to cough up and you need to confess.
Should Australia spend $368 billion on nuclear submarines?
But it soon became clear there was so much more to the story. There has to be something more nefarious going on. I'm Rob Bergen. Join me as I investigate what became of Jack in the new season of Unravel. You know where my son is. Search for the Unravel podcast on ABC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.
Should we be spending up to $368 billion on nuclear submarines over the next 30 years? Well, Peter Garrett, the former Labor Minister and Midnight Oil star, doesn't think so. So he set up a crowdfunded inquiry into the AUKUS submarine deal. It's perfect timing, with the government announcing the original agreement has changed a bit, with the US to switch out one new sub for, well, a second-hand one.
What prompted the crowdfunded inquiry into the AUKUS deal?
Today, Sam Roggeveen, Director of the Lowy Institute's International Security Programme, on the growing concerns about the deal. I'm Sam Hawley on Gadigal land in Sydney. This is ABC News Daily.
Sam, why don't we start with a very brief history lesson about how this Orcas deal came about, which was basically via a diplomatic crisis with the French, wasn't it? Remind me of that.
Well, Orcas was announced in September of 2021 when the Morrison government decided that the project to procure Orcas 12 french designed and built submarines which were powered by conventional that is diesel electric motors that that project would be cancelled and instead we would buy nuclear-powered submarines from the united states today i announce a new partnership a new agreement that i describe as a forever partnership a forever partnership
for a new time between the oldest and most trusted of friends.
The actual reason why we cancelled the French deal and went with AUKUS instead is actually still a bit of a mystery. There's a great book to be written on that subject by someone in the future, but no Australian government, I would argue, has yet given a really coherent and comprehensive strategic case for why we switched from the French attack class submarines to the AUKUS submarines.
Right, yes, and of course we had that rather interesting moment with Emmanuel Macron when he was asked, did he lie to you in relation to Scott Morrison?
Do you think he lied to you? I don't think, I know.
That goes down in history, right? That moment.
How did the AUKUS deal change recently?
Indeed. Well, I would have the world's smallest violin for the French, I must say. I mean, there's a reason you put cancellation clauses in contracts. It's so you can cancel them. And the French were generously compensated.
All right. Yes, we did lose out by $3.4 billion because we dumped that deal. Now, that deal was worth $90 billion. The Orcas deal, as you say, was born. That has a price tag of $368 billion. So just explain or remind me, what do we actually get for that?
Well, it's up to $368 billion. That's the figure we have from governments. So somewhere between 268 and 368, that was the figure offered at the time. Essentially, what we get for that is eight nuclear-powered submarines.
What historical context led to the AUKUS submarine deal?
And the first three and potentially as many as five of those submarines will be American. They will be Virginia-class submarines from American shipyards. And then the final three, and maybe as many as five, will be a new class of nuclear-powered submarine to be designed and built primarily in the UK, but also in Adelaide. And at the moment, that's simply called SSN AUKUS. But that is purely a paper design at the moment. The process of designing and building that submarine has only just begun.
Right. Okay. And yes, just a reminder, when we signed up to this rather large deal, the president back then, Joe Biden, he seemed to forget the prime minister's name.
Thank you, Boris, and I want to thank that fellow down under. Thank you very much, pal. Appreciate it, Mr Prime Minister.
Which, Sam, I guess no businessman with that sort of money on the table would ever do.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:00–0:19
2
Should Australia spend $368 billion on nuclear submarines?
0:19–1:21
3
What prompted the crowdfunded inquiry into the AUKUS deal?
1:21–3:25
4
How did the AUKUS deal change recently?
3:25–4:15
5
What historical context led to the AUKUS submarine deal?
4:15–5:24
6
What are the implications of getting second-hand submarines?
5:24–6:50
7
What are the criticisms surrounding the AUKUS deal?
6:50–8:29
8
How might Australia address potential military capability gaps?
8:29–16:31