In this episode, I sit down with my coach Phil Wood for what I hope will be a regular series of conversations — and I couldn't think of a better place to start than the story of one of the biggest chapter endings I've ever heard. Phil and his wife Jen spent 20 years as church-planting pastors, pouring their entire lives — their identity, their community, their spirituality, their income — into one calling. And then, five years ago, they walked away from all of it. What drove that decision wasn't a strategic plan. It was grief. It was a profound moment at his father's bedside, a release of a lifetime of seeking approval, and the gut-level knowing that the second half of life had to look different. What followed was a leap into the unknown — with three boys, no business plan, and the complete trust that the path would reveal itself. We get into what it actually feels like to end a chapter before you know what comes next, why so many of us stay in the wrong chapters far too long, and how Phil and Jen experimented their way into building Expansion Lab — a leadership development company that looks nothing like what they imagined on day one. We also explore the difference between genuine evolution and moving the goalposts, why inner work is the foundation of everything, the role of support systems when you're taking the biggest risks of your life, and what it means to bet on yourself when you have a family depending on you. This is a conversation about faith, alignment, and what it looks like to actually live the authentic life — not just talk about it.

Ask this episode

“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.

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