Chapter 1: What causes moral outrage in humans?
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Hey there, a heads up, this episode is one from our archives. There is just something about youth that makes you think you're invincible. Kirk Gray was a pretty typical teenager in that he thought he was invincible, especially behind the wheel of a car. So when he and some friends were running late to the movies one night, he hit the gas.
It had just rained and I had gotten my driver's license not long ago and it was dark. So I was rushing up the road. I wasn't paying a lot of attention because the music was blasting and we were talking about high school gossip. And I was just about to blow by the exit when friend over the back shouted over the dead, you're going to miss it. Turn left, turn left. And so I immediately turned left.
Reflexively, I didn't look at my blind spot.
That's too bad, because in his blind spot was a brand new Mercedes-Benz.
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Chapter 2: How have humans developed morality over time?
He stops and says, yeah, you call the cops, and I'll tell them what you did.
Now, this comment confused Kurt, and it incensed him because, yes, of course, it was wrong that Kurt had nearly smashed into the guy, that he could have killed him, but now Kurt felt like he was the victim, with this guy cornering him and threatening him.
This comment was so strange to me because to me it was obvious that I was the victim. He was literally slacking me around, literally threatened to kill me. And yet he says that the cops would be on his side, right? That he feels righteous. And I realized, you know, through time, through my research especially, I realized that we both felt convinced that we were the victims in that situation.
And that feeling of threat of harm gave us the moral conviction that we were right.
Kurt Gray is all grown up now, and he's a professor of psychology and neuroscience at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where he directs the Center for the Science of Moral Understanding. He's also, hopefully, a better driver.
But the fact that both he and the Mercedes driver thought they were the bigger victims, that they were most harmed, Kurt says that explains the crux of why we get stuck in all kinds of heated arguments on everything from abortion to, yes, road rage.
It's so self-evident to us that our moral convictions are true, right? Your opinion on immigration or abortion or taxes. But then someone else can have exactly the opposite opinion and also think that they are absolutely true.
Kurt explores all of this in his new book called Outraged, Why We Fight About Morality in Politics and How to Find Common Ground. So today, we're digging into the psychology behind our moral outrage. I'm Sana Khadar. This is All in the Mind. It certainly feels like we're more outraged than ever before, thanks to social media. But as we know, feelings aren't necessarily fact. So is this true?
Scientists haven't tracked feelings and outrage per se, but lots of other indicators do suggest that we are more outraged and more polarized than ever. As you point out, social media, a big contributor.
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Chapter 3: What role does social media play in our feelings of outrage?
And then the third step, the V of CIB, is validate. So once someone musters up the courage, right, and it's hard to share your beliefs, especially when you're worried someone might argue against you.
Yeah.
Is to validate them. This doesn't mean agreeing with them. It doesn't mean giving up your moral convictions. It means doing something like saying thanks. I appreciate you sharing that. And if I'm listening correctly, I think this is what you're saying. And so that's a conversation now, right? And now they won't feel so threatened if maybe you challenge them.
And I actually have a story of having a conversation like this in an Uber.
Oh, yeah?
Yeah.
So I'm taking Uber to the airport. As soon as we close the door, the driver asked what I do. I tell him I study morality and politics. And then he basically says, oh, boy, here we go. I have a really unique political view. I am a Christian nationalist, but not the typical Christian nationalist.
Okay. What does that mean?
Yeah, exactly. What does that mean? And that's a good question. And that's the question that I ask, right? Say, I don't know many Christian nationalists. I don't know even what the typical one thinks. And so I'd be interested to hear how your views are maybe different from that typical Christian nationalist.
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Chapter 4: How do different perspectives shape our views on harm?
That's not how they are. And it's just not an acceptable thing to do in conversation. And he said, I completely agree. I'm sorry. I'll take a step back. Well, I didn't mean it like that. It's just hard to express my my views. And I just said that.
That is fascinating.
Right. For the next minute, you know, we kind of kept on talking. But the reason we could do that is because I tried to understand there was a good faith effort to understand his views and connect. And now we can kind of be like, well, let's have a civil conversation. Right. But I couldn't have challenged him initially. Right.
Yeah. Kind of this connection that would have just devolved into defensiveness and sort of, yeah, not great stuff.
Right. Exactly. Right. Because he knew that I didn't think he was a terrible human being. Right. He knew that I knew he was concerned about protecting his family in a different way than I thought would be the best way to protect your family and society. But he knew I respected him. And then the conversation could go better.
But I think a challenge to these conversations is, right, because we're so entrenched in our political party versus the conservatives, right, we feel like even trying to understand is somehow like betraying our side. Like if you just are seeking to understand the other side, you're somehow betraying the cause. But I think it's not true.
I mean, you know, I talk about this stuff a lot and many people are suspicious. They're like, both sides, it's a... I'm like, no, you can hold fast to your convictions, but if you want to affect change, if you want to advance your goals, you need to understand people who are opposed to those goals and you need to build coalitions.
So even just from a pragmatic perspective, you need to understand them. And from a democracy perspective, democracy flourishes when there's distinct ideas and you need to understand what could be interesting and what section of them could be true to kind of navigate the messiness of our modern life.
Yeah. And I guess if you don't do that, you kind of are stuck in metaphorical trench warfare forever.
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