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Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Welcome to All There Is. Wherever you are in your grief, you're not alone. I was talking with a friend of mine who doesn't listen to this podcast, and he's experienced a number of losses in his life, but he really doesn't want to think much about them, which I certainly understand. He asked me, isn't it depressing to do all these interviews all the time?
And I thought about it for a moment, and then I told him the truth, which is it's not. It's sad often, it's emotional, but these are the most real conversations that I have with people. It's one human being connecting with and learning from another about a fundamental experience that we all share. My friend didn't really want to hear more about it, but I was kind of on a roll, so I kept going.
But what is depressing to me, I said, what's depressed me much of my life is not having these conversations, except with myself in my head. The loneliness of that, that to me is what is depressing. I really love the conversation that you're about to hear. It's with Isaiah Thomas. He's a two-time NBA All-Star, and the fact that he's 5'9 inches makes that even more impressive.
But what so impressed me about him is his willingness to speak about loss and his vulnerability. Two of Isaiah's three sisters have died. His sister, LaQuisha, died in 2024, and his youngest sister, Chyna, died in 2017 on the eve of the NBA playoffs. She was killed in a car crash in Washington state. She was about to turn 23.
The day after China died, Isaiah played in Game 1 of the Eastern Conference semifinals against the Chicago Bulls. He played with China's name written on his shoes, and in 38 minutes, he scored 33 points. A few weeks later, on what would have been China's 23rd birthday, Isaiah scored a career-high 53 points in an overtime victory against the Washington Wizards.
I spoke to Isaiah Thomas May 1st, the day before what would have been China's 32nd birthday. Can you tell me about Chyna?
What was she like? Chyna was, man, we were connected like this. Anytime I had to go to the gym, anytime I had basketball tournaments, even if she didn't want to, she was the tag-along. She was everywhere I was, always super positive and super energetic, outspoken, outgoing, and just loving. Tomorrow's her birthday, actually. She would be 32 soon. So she had been to like every game? Everything.
Growing up, middle school, high school, college, anytime I could look in the stands, she's right there with my dad. So like, truly my biggest fan in life.
There's a great video of Chyna, and if it's okay, do you mind if we play it?
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Chapter 2: How did Isaiah Thomas cope with the loss of his sister Chyna?
When you got to the Celtics, it was a team that was kind of rebuilding. Yes. But you really set the tone.
Yeah, I just tried to change the culture. They needed a player like me, and I needed an organization like them to give me the opportunity to showcase my skills. And we turned that whole season around in 2017. What happened to China? We're preparing to play the Chicago Bulls in the first round of the playoffs.
A day before the playoffs start, my little sister gets in a single car crash, fell asleep at the wheel really late at night driving. I didn't know about it until the next morning. We just get up and we practice. I'm going through my regular routine and one of my close friends, Avery Bradley, on the Celtics, we're actually from the same neighborhood and he knows China, he knows my family.
So he was like, IT, come here, I got something to tell you. It's important. And when we went back in the locker room, he was like, bro, your sister passed away. I'm like, what are you talking about? So I go to my phone and I see calls from
Chapter 3: What impact did Chyna's death have on Isaiah's performance in the NBA playoffs?
my dad, my mom, my wife. So I called my dad back and he just breaks it to me. And he couldn't really talk at the time either. I've only seen my dad cry like three or four times in my life, but I've never seen my dad be that emotional. So I didn't know what to do. I couldn't go to him, he couldn't go to me. I couldn't go to anybody's. It was unbelievable, the news I heard.
Like, I'm preparing to play the Chicago Bulls. We're the number one seed. The best year of my career and the worst year of my life, like, at the same time. Had you had any experience with loss? My auntie passed away, like, older people in my family, and my grandparents, great-grandparents, but not, like, my sister and my youngest sister at that. Like, I would never think that would happen.
She just was reaching out to me about coming out to the playoffs. She's like, you know, my birthday's coming up. It's my Jordan year, because she would have been 23. So all of those things are, like, going through my head. I remember just leaving my stuff in the locker room and getting in the car and just crying for, like, 30 minutes straight. My coach comes outside. Security comes outside.
Then, you know, people just trying to help. But, like, there was nothing you can possibly do. It was, like, the most numb moments I've ever had. I wanted to go be with my family to try to help them out. But I remember talking to my dad that night, and he's like, You know what your sister would want you to do. She would want you to play.
Chapter 4: How does Isaiah describe his relationship with his sister?
And you coming home isn't going to do anything right now. So many people were texting and reaching out to me. Kobe Bryant sent me a long text. Condolences. Sorry to hear the news. But at the end of the text, he said, if you are going to play, there's no excuses. And you're going to be who you've always been. Kobe Bryant is my favorite player ever.
So to see him reach out to me and say, if you are going to play, you go out there and be who you are because that's what your sister would want. There was no other way around it. That's what I was doing. So then the next day, I just showed up at the arena like a normal day because anything I've ever been through in life, basketball has always been the space where it takes everything away.
For two, three hours, I don't think about anything other than the game and it puts me in a great space. That's the only thing I knew. So I went to arena, prepared like I usually do. My body was there, my mind wasn't. And it was the hardest thing I ever had to do. Like, I remember being in warmups and just starting to cry, because it was like, it just didn't seem real.
There's a video, Avery Bradley comes over and puts his arm around you because you're crying. It was just a beautiful moment. It was just like such a human thing that he did.
That was one of the moments where I just couldn't hold it in. I was just like, how did this happen? Just having someone there at that moment was like the smallest thing. And it was everything. He was the one that told me the day before. And you know how hard that is? His mom had passed away a year before that. So he knew. He knew. He knew exactly the emotions I was going through.
It wasn't like he was trying to fix it or stop it. It was just there when everybody else was scared to be around me. And it wasn't even their fault. People don't know. You don't know what to say. You don't know anything. For him to really be there for me at that time, that was everything. So I'm super thankful for him. All my teammates. So I played through that game.
We ended up losing right when the game got over and I was leaving the arena. It just hit me again. The real life just hit me. It doesn't go away. And it doesn't. Every time I would go to practice, every time I would play in a game, I would be okay. And then right when the game's over, I had no energy to speak to anybody.
It was like the opposite of who I was because I was the life of the locker room. I was the energy on the team. It was killing me seeing my teammates walk on eggshells because they didn't know how to react. So I had to fake it. I had to somehow put a smile on for my teammates because it was bigger than me at that point. I was hurting my teammates.
It was the hardest thing I ever had to navigate through while playing against the best players in the world and trying to win a championship.
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Chapter 5: What emotions did Isaiah experience during his sister's funeral?
Because obviously the crowd is going crazy.
Crazy. It was silent. I didn't hear the fans. I didn't hear nothing. There was no emotion. I had no emotion in that game. I wasn't there. I was in the gym by myself at the YMCA Community Center growing up, and she's right there. That was all God and all my sister. That was for her.
You were asked about it after the game.
Where is this coming from, man? Where is this coming from? It's my sister. It's her birthday today. Happy birthday. She would have been 23 today, so everything I do is for her. And she's watching over me, so that's all her. Do you remember that? Yeah. I remember that. I remember every moment, right, when I walk out the arena. Slaps you in the face. All that cool stuff.
winning a playoff game, scoring a career high. That was one of the most amazing moments, but you don't understand what really matters until it really matters. That was one of the moments that basketball just didn't matter.
Your dad talked about how he didn't know how you played those games. I just want to play what he said. Yeah.
I don't know how he played because I couldn't do anything. I watched some games, and then I couldn't watch no more. It made it worse for me. Whatever basketball had to do, we made it a family thing to go and watch him, but also make it fun for the family. And now China was missing. It's different. Only thing you think is, where would she be? When you got kids, you just want your kids around.
When you lose one, it feels like the world is upside down. I wasn't built for that. Sometimes people think you're strong. become the weakest thing around. It just wasn't right.
I never cried until like five years ago. I buried all that stuff. I just moved forward. And all that stuff catches up with you if you don't talk about it, if you don't express it, if you don't turn to it in some way.
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Chapter 6: How does Isaiah navigate his grief while playing basketball?
My mom does go to grief counseling. It's something that helps her, and I think it can help everybody. I try to go at least once a month. After, I just feel way better. It just... It helps to open up. I just always kept it in because that's just what I always done. So I just tried something different.
The first time you went to talk to somebody, was that hard?
The hardest thing ever. Like talk to somebody you don't trust or don't know. But it just made me, every time after, it just made me smile. It just made me. It made me feel different. I started making a routine of trying to speak to somebody once a month, try to learn something off of social media that others are going through.
If you're not able to speak about it to others, you're not going to find ways to live through it, like not even get through it, just to live through it. Does it get better? I think you learn to navigate through it. It doesn't get bad. I want to talk to my sister every day. I want to argue with my older sister. I want to have a back and forth with her.
I want to tell my younger sister to slow down. I want to be able to laugh with them. I always say to my mom, I wish you could get one phone call a year and just hear my sister's voice. Just to ask them, is everything good? If they can tell me that, that would make things so much easier. My younger sister didn't even get to meet my daughter. And my daughter is my younger sister. Really?
Everything about her.
Wow.
You see her. My daughter, everything. Everything. My dad says it all the time. Really? That's China. Because it really is. Every way she acts, it's like identical. It's cool because I can see her in my daughter. That's something God did to keep her close to me.
It's incredible to see, I have two little boys, four and six, and I see my dad in their eyes, and all the stuff that happened to you as a little kid that you bury, it's an opportunity to kind of Figure that out and be better for them. My little one has the shape of my mom's face, and it's crazy. Like, I see it.
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Chapter 7: What lessons has Isaiah learned about grief and vulnerability?
I understand why I'm crying. I miss my sisters. And it's okay to cry. Never seen my dad cry when I was a kid. I just thought, you shouldn't cry. I try to explain to my kids, like, you can be emotional. Adult men cry. That's strength. It's not soft crying. In life, you care that much, you're going to cry and you're going to be emotional. So not to hide those emotions.
At some point in their life, when they hit some adversity or some type of grief, the last thing they're gonna do is hold it in, because that's the worst thing to do.
My six-year-old, when I try to talk about emotions with him, he just, We'll try to change the subject. I was the same way as a kid, and I really don't want that for him.
And then my daughter's seven, she would start crying with me. Doesn't even know why it is. It's like the boys, they're out of age now. I can really explain to them. Yeah, you think your dad's all super tough and things, but it's also tough to cry, too. You can do that, and you can explain and speak about your emotions. In this family, you can.
And I want them to know that when I go to my sister's funeral home and talk to her, both of them, it makes me feel that much more closer to them. I don't know, grief sucks, but there's ways around it that can help you. And I really believe that. And as I start to meet more people that's open about talking about their story, it just, man, it helps. Like in life, you just need others.
You need others to... to accomplish things, to get through things, to not move on, but to go forward. Like you need others. And coming on things like this is like, I can't wait to see the feedback. Just to read comments or to hear what others are going through because everybody has that in common.
And so many people come from the environment I come from, from the inner city that have nobody to talk to. and going through so much, death, adversity, school, and have nobody to speak to.
A very close friend of mine who was incarcerated for 29 years, we talk about this all the time, that prisons are full of grieving people.
I got a friend that's serving for a crime I know he didn't do, but I speak to him every day just to let him cry out and speak about things he's not speaking about in there. So I understand that. That's helped me in ways that he doesn't even know. Just being able to speak about things to people and just somebody here without having an answer and without having a comeback for what I'm saying.
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