In this episode of All Things Product, Teresa Torres and Petra Wille tackle a classic product question with a twist: Should all outcomes be measurable? Teresa revisits a long-held belief—that outcomes should be metrics—and explains why she’s starting to shift her thinking. Drawing from hands-on product work (like rethinking outcomes at a recruiting platform), Teresa shows how focusing on value creation moments can sometimes matter more than tracking clean metrics. Petra adds her perspective with the Google HEART framework, highlighting how starting with signals instead of goals can lead to smarter product decisions. Whether you’re early in discovery or leading a seasoned product team, this episode helps you rethink how to frame success—even when it’s hard to measure.

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.

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