I Debated UFOs With America’s Top Skeptic (It Got Ugly…)
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Who is Michael Shermer and what is his skeptical stance on UFO disclosure?
Michael Shermer, it is an honor to have you here. I'm Dr. Michael Sherman. Michael Shermer.
Michael Shermer.
Good to see you with your pile of your writing. You are probably the most prominent scientific skeptic in the United States. I'm the publisher of Skeptic Magazine. You are synonymous with pouring cold water on people's wanting to believe. Yeah, that's right. I've been hearing about disclosure coming any day now for 40 years. When's it going to happen? I think we have an abundance of evidence in the open source world. I believe that now. So like I've already hit that threshold. What's your threshold? Wow, much higher. If we're talking about aliens, I would say they're out there somewhere, but they have not come here. What about observable anomalies we are seeing on Earth all the time? Space junk, satellites, swamp gas, spinning eddies, sun dogs, ball lightning, ice crystals, reflected light up the clouds.
You're picking the winners. We're picking the winners.
The vast majority of these things have a prosaic explanation. We don't give a shit about those ones.
Do you believe in dark matter? I believe there's a mystery to be explained. So you believe in UFOs as much as you believe in dark matter? Uh, I don't like the word believe in. What about General Neil McCaslin? In isolation, that story is completely significant. No, I don't. It's just totally random. What do you mean? There was likely some sort of antediluvian civilization. If there was an advanced civilization, where's their trash? Where's their tools? If you read the book, your base case has to be that Charles Manson was probably an MKUltra mind control patient. Either that or cult leaders can use sex, drugs, and rock and roll to get people to do crazy shit for them. If you were the CIA, would you really want to hire somebody, a lowlife like Lee Harvey Oswald, a nobody?
Yeah, and that's why I said I'm a patsy.
That's exactly who you'd hire, somebody disposable.
I'm just a patsy. I will admit that I want to believe. Will you admit that you want to disbelieve? Do you want to have a mystical experience? Okay, all right. Yes, this could be. I think you're running from your shadow. You're a secret mystic. Very strange thing happened to me last night. You were once abducted by aliens. Okay, you want to hear that story? I do, I want to hear that story.
Ignition sequence.
Their existence cannot longer be denied.
Michael Shermer, it is an honor to have you here. You are probably the most prominent scientific skeptic in the United States. You're the founder of Skeptic Magazine. You are synonymous with pouring cold water on all sorts of mythological belief systems that people have, people's wanting to believe. In the UFO world, we have a phrase, which is, I want to believe. I will admit I fall prey to that all the time. I would say that's probably my a priori bias is I want to believe. Um, so you, uh, I think are a healthy check against that sort of thinking. Um, and maybe I can, I can challenge you on a couple of things here, but this will be a really fun conversation and I'm, and I'm honored that you're here.
Well, thank you. Isn't that the Mulder poster? I want to believe.
It is exactly.
Yeah. Yeah. I guess I'm the Scully.
You're the Scully. That's exactly right. Yeah.
Perfect X-Files reference. And I actually have a photo. I think it's the background of my phone of me and Jacques Vallée. And we're next to that poster. So that is that is one of my prized. Well, I love his work. He's you know, when you read him, it's like, oh, my God, this guy's a he's a skeptic. You know, he's like, oh, I don't believe Bob Lazar. I don't think this is aliens. I don't think this is what they said it was. I'm like, whoa, OK. And then he goes, but it could be these interdimensional beings of the mythology. I'm like, OK, wait, hang on. Yeah.
What evidence and threshold does Shermer demand to confirm extraterrestrials?
Where are you going with this? Yeah, he's very interesting because he pulled he's first of all, he has a real scientific background. He was on ARPANET, the first version of the Internet with Doug Engelbart. And in the 60s, he was also an astronomer, you know, and so he's a real kind of, you know, scientific credentials.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
Who is Michael Shermer and what is his skeptical stance on UFO disclosure?
0:00–4:04
2
What evidence and threshold does Shermer demand to confirm extraterrestrials?
4:04–12:21
3
Why are UFOs reported at nuclear sites and how do skeptics explain them?
12:21–1:11:22
4
How do courts and peer review differ when judging eyewitness UFO testimony?
1:11:22–1:13:43
5
What explains patterns of missing or dead scientists and should McCasland be investigated?
1:13:43–1:20:26
6
Which historic UFO cases (Roswell, 1933 Magenta, Gemini 7) warrant further investigation and why?
1:20:26–2:13:19
7
Why are eyewitness accounts unreliable for UFO and abduction claims?
2:13:19–2:17:04
8
Could remote viewing, consciousness studies, or quantum effects explain paranormal phenomena?
2:17:04–3:21:19
Speakers
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