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Aotearoa Rugby Pod

Does Jordie Shift To 15? All Blacks’ Midfield Squeeze

11 May 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?

0.031 - 26.334 Ross Karl

Coming to you from rugby's greatest fortress, New Zealand's national stadium, Eden Park, is the Aotearoa Rugby Park. Kia ora and welcome to another episode of Aotearoa Rugby Pod. So much to talk about this week. We've had some stellar performances from the likes of Tava Tava Nawai and Josh Morby and some conversation about where they sit in the bigger scheme of things.

0

26.835 - 33.666 Ross Karl

Obviously the Reds fans are a little salty about some calls against the Chiefs. Them salty fans across the board, under-20s.

0

33.646 - 57.578 Ross Karl

there was a big call in there as well and then we're shaping up with three weeks ago in the round robin of what this top six is going to look like so plenty to chat about there and look at the run-in for every single team later on this week we've got black ferns captain to talk about her experiences over in the uk and now under whitney hansen before coming back to oh picky and also

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57.558 - 78.966 Ross Karl

We'll get into this under-20s big time after seeing the New Zealanders and the South Africans draw 29-0. Of course, if you want to catch Aotearoa Rugby Pod, you can do so at Aotearoa Rugby Pod official channels. You can go to stuff.co.nz, get stories and the full podcast and clips as well. Go to Rugby Pass as well if you need to get that, as well as some stats.

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79.286 - 98.309 Ross Karl

Plenty of places to get us and send us an email. ARP at fandommedia.co.nz will put you into the draw today. to get yourself one of those Athletic Prize packs. So plenty to get into. James Parsons, big talking point over the next couple of weeks is going to be where these teams fit, who get the home semi-finals, the Blues versus the Crusaders.

98.349 - 101.217 Ross Karl

How did you feel the Blues are sitting after that loss?

101.197 - 106.147 James Parsons

I was big on hoping that all the baggage was left at the old ground, but no, it's certainly travelled.

Chapter 2: What are the standout performances in the All Blacks midfield?

106.648 - 118.751 James Parsons

It's travelled very well. The Crusaders were just a much more desperate outfit and probably, I think more importantly, their attacking structures allowed them to create a lot more.

0

118.951 - 123.981 Ross Karl

And looking at our local red and black alumni, Bryn Hall, smiling a little bit more this week, Brynner.

0

124.197 - 140.685 Bryn Hall

Yeah, definitely. I think the intensity of what kind of, I guess, what was on the line for the Crusaders considering a pretty disappointing loss last week. And I think, you know, if we probably go into a little bit now, I think the biggest area that I think with the Crusaders in their season, and David Havili talked around it post-match, was around their turnover rate.

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140.785 - 156.691 Bryn Hall

And if you look on the weekend, they had 13 turnovers. Their discipline was really good with only six penalties lost. the whole game and one big thing Jipper that I did enjoy seeing was the 94% tackle percentage and the dominance in and around that with 13 winning that collision battle with the Blues.

0

156.731 - 166.506 Bryn Hall

So yeah those kind of areas I think throughout the year has been a bit of a kryptonite but they kind of got all those areas really nicely on the weekend and led to the big part of getting that result against the Blues down south.

166.486 - 183.729 James Parsons

94% was because there wasn't a lot of deception from what you'd seen the week before against the Reds and almost played within themselves. The old idea of probably playing the Crusaders and getting the ball down there didn't quite suit under the roof and sort of backfired on them a little bit.

183.749 - 193.962 James Parsons

They scored some long-range tries to keep themselves in the game, but nothing sort of was created in terms of that manipulation of the defence where they could sort of puppeteer it.

193.942 - 216.456 Bryn Hall

I think their pass ratio was 0.82 right so I think they probably had a mindset jipper of being able to maybe just go through the front door with the Crusaders and I think throughout the year sometimes when the Crusaders have lost their battle it then does open up I guess around the attacking structures of what we've probably seen with the Blues right, I think throughout the year the evolution of their game and how they do attack so you know you do have a look at that collision area I think

216.436 - 242.359 Bryn Hall

That was a big part of maybe stunting that ability to be able to get around the Crusaders but yeah I think just very, not predictable but they probably had a mindset I think trying to go through the front door and I guess with those stats that I touched on around the Crusaders being operated at 94%, being a lot more dominant in those tackles even though it is a little bit easier being tighter and not a lot of animation and variety but it seemed like it must have been a plough dripper, like they were very very tight in their carries.

Chapter 3: How does Jordie Barrett's position impact the All Blacks' backline?

590.38 - 601.277 James Parsons

So... I think a test match, depending on the opposition, I think you could definitely do it. I think you could do it now, but I don't think you'd want to test it against the Springboks.

0

601.297 - 607.787 Ross Karl

So really it's just about finding a place where he can be less defying our Nuku. The number's kind of not relevant in the whole way.

0

607.767 - 628.824 James Parsons

Not the way he plays. I was quite fixated on it, but Rob Penny's done a good job in making sure that others are tidying up. Because if you even look at Leo Willie, he's been quiet because everything is centralised around Leicester. And what he's got better at, what I've been most impressed, and this is probably his back skill set, is he's freeing the ball a bit more, Bryn.

0

628.864 - 638.017 James Parsons

You know, like he's giving balls out the back or he's doing those chip kicks. So he's now becoming a threat like an Adi Sarvia where you're like, okay, he can do quite a lot here.

0

638.078 - 655.543 James Parsons

Even that pick in the grubber for the trial, those are the, and I know he's at midfield there, but it didn't, like, I believe a lot of people when you're talking to them, they don't understand that he moves to the midfield because it looked no different. So I think that's a key thing. Like, it's just a number on his back.

655.523 - 679.135 James Parsons

where i think international level where they'll get challenged um especially at open side is that first breakdown you know offset piece and strike plays and line out time although you know line out time when you're struggling you normally go to shorter line outs um so there's i'm definitely more of a um a convert than when i suppose it first initially started i still think it would be a big ass to start a test match

679.115 - 709.054 Ross Karl

like he's three games in yeah like he's doing extremely well super rugby he's and i think that was probably the most impressive is that that blues loose forward trio you know he was the shining light yeah you know on the park as a lucy which says a lot because they're pretty pretty handy on the other side that's a good trio one of the interesting things i on looking at the stats brinner over the weekend was comparing the stats of tavatava nawai and less defying you know one wearing 12 one wearing seven but also playing 13.

709.034 - 729.456 Bryn Hall

the numbers are very very similar in what they do for their respective teams very similar to Leicester in terms of the the breakdown area and being able to influence through the breakdown or just just in general with his ball carriers like man I had Leicester as my play of the week but then I was watching Jimmy and the way that he was playing and that's like it's almost changed my decision around with how he was playing because

729.436 - 744.711 Bryn Hall

He's just so influential for that Highlanders team and you look at his ball carries and at the international level that's really important to be able to get over their bandage line and he's able to do that against forwards and then against backs on the edge so that tight area is very very good for Jimmy.

Chapter 4: What are the chances of Josh Morby making the Super Rugby top 6?

863.39 - 876.69 James Parsons

Do you know what I mean? And Leicester's the same. Duplessis Karifi's very good at it as well, but it's something that is just, they do hundreds of reps a week over there and

0

876.67 - 900.687 James Parsons

like you can just see it's an automated behavior for him it's it's because like he could do it like think about when he was on the wing for tasman he could do it on the edge and each breakdown is probably the easiest ones to attack but it's become his point of difference now and like you you he has just sharpened his sword so to speak yeah through repetition repetition and now it's just an automated behavior that just

0

900.667 - 924.042 James Parsons

yeah there's no way because he's so quick even if you get a lavanini who can clean in iraq or or an it's a beth once they're down there you're not moving them yeah you just can't it's it's impossible the only option you have is to try and do the the roll but then you put yourself in risk of obviously with that new focus if any sort of lower limb injury happens you'll be carded

0

924.022 - 942.469 Ross Karl

So Bryn, considering the similarity in those two skill sets, considering they both had about the same carries, same number of turnovers, same number of rucks hit, all of the things that they're doing are so similar. If you were to select an all-black team, is there a place where you can have an all-black team with both of those two guys on the field?

0

942.702 - 955.421 Bryn Hall

I think you could, I just don't think having probably both of them would be my kind of option, unless you go to a 7-1 split, which it does open up the opportunity to be able to do that when you select those guys that are able to play in the forwards and in the backs.

955.461 - 967.66 Bryn Hall

But Leicester, and the fact that he is playing number seven and playing for the forwards, it does open the opportunity for when he is selected for the All Blacks that he could be put into that kind of role in the 23 role with what we do see with Ester Hazen because he is playing number seven.

967.78 - 989.652 Bryn Hall

Now, I think Jimmy is more so in and around battling for the midfielder spots, I think, but the fact that he isn't playing in the forwards. So you could do it, Ross, but then you also think around line-out options as well. If you do have two of them and they are playing as forwards, so to speak, then having those line-out options is pretty important when it comes to line-out parity. So,

989.632 - 1001.515 Bryn Hall

Yeah, you could, but no, I just think it's a little bit different, I think, with Leicester playing in the loose forwards. You'd probably see him more as a forward option than you would seeing Tava Tava Ngawai with the Highlanders only being at the midfield for this year and the last couple of years.

1001.697 - 1007.927 James Parsons

I'm just such a big fan of Leicester in the midfield. Like, I just think he can do this role. Like, he is so good. Like, freakishly good.

Chapter 5: What factors influence the selection of players for the All Blacks?

2277.616 - 2287.874 James Parsons

that he is in 12. I took my smack on the hand seriously and I looked at it and thought, okay, how can this work? I think that's the only way in my head it can work.

0

2287.894 - 2301.058 Bryn Hall

And I think if you do have all those boys on the field, you look at probably all the distribution ability that that group has. I think Quinn's been very, very good around his distribution skills, even his attacking kicks and the way that he does play.

0

2301.038 - 2329.847 Bryn Hall

geordie's very good in around that will jordan's good around his skill set um and then even a billy proctor with what we saw against with the with the hurricanes his offload game his his bridge pass and his distribution skills so like if you want to play an all-out attack game especially against line speed pressure and having players that are able to use their skill set in the passing game like it might actually be able to unlock and get around those kind of defenses because all of them are very good and around the short game and the long game passing game also with the attacking kicks and being able to kick as well as a triple threat

0

2330.587 - 2348.06 James Parsons

And I say again, if you can't find the space on the edge, you can't find it via the boot. A quintapire gets you quick ball, gets you gain line. Yeah. That's the best way to shut down line speed, is make a dent in the defence. Don't give them time to set and go. Have we solved it? I don't know. We've just moved Geordie to fullback.

0

2348.2 - 2351.667 Unknown

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

2351.647 - 2369.706 Ross Karl

Right, okay. We've got plenty to get to as far as Super Rugby before we finish the podcast as well. We've done the Blues Crusaders. I think we've talked a little bit about the Highlanders via Tava Tava Nawa. Let's just talk, I suppose, a touch about the Chiefs Reds. I think there's a couple of things out of that game that we learned.

2369.686 - 2388.61 Ross Karl

One is that the Brisbane crowd really did not like Marcus Blayfield by the end of it. We had an email through from Nick Swanson. He said, look, I'm not normally one to complain about the ref, but just finished watching the Reds Chiefs and it was the worst refereeing performance I can remember. I was so frustrated, I looked it up afterwards and found out he's a Kiwi.

2389.011 - 2407.018 Ross Karl

That wouldn't normally bother me. I usually rate the guys like Williams, O'Keefe and Dolman, but... No, he's saying that we need to go towards neutral referees. We don't have enough. This is ridiculous. He doesn't normally say it, but in this case, he thinks there was bias. Now, let's have a look at some of these calls.

2407.559 - 2417.935 Ross Karl

Obviously, it was a big game for the Chiefs as far as the result is concerned, and a couple of these calls went their way, particularly the grounded ball that seemed like a try before halftime for the Reds.

Chapter 6: How do the recent performances of Leicester Fainga’anuku affect team dynamics?

2531.399 - 2541.892 Ross Karl

isn't what we see from the television director. The TMO is able to access all angles, and we don't necessarily see the same angles. Is that the case? That's what I understand. So they could have seen something that we didn't see.

0

2541.912 - 2555.949 James Parsons

But remember, they can only intervene when asked as well. It's not as like, check, check, check, you know, like you see in an international game. There is a concerted effort to speed everything up, and that just comes with human error. I don't even know if it was wrong, though. We didn't get to see the footage.

0

2556.009 - 2564.139 Ross Karl

Brent, I think as an impartial bystander, who's not a chief stander, Watching that, my first thought was that they rushed through the decision.

0

2564.219 - 2565.681 James Parsons

No, but he called held up straight away.

0

2565.741 - 2566.221 Ross Karl

Yeah.

2566.722 - 2588.388 James Parsons

So Plough goes held up, boom, gone. You can't really have a crack at Newman. He didn't get a chance. It was great work from the Aussie broadcast that they just showed that as they're running off the field. So I know I just interrupted again, Bryn. I'm thirsty today. Still looking for that sponsor too. But yeah. I'd like to have a look and see if it was a draw.

2588.588 - 2611.5 Ross Karl

The Chiefs, that was massive for them. They're now in a really good position as far as home playoff games and being able to dictate terms through the rest of the season. Now, the Chiefs have got the Highlanders at home, the Crusaders away, the Blues at home. So they... are looking like they could be in a spot to claim second place. It would be tough to overtake the Hurricanes.

2611.64 - 2626.122 Ross Karl

Well, now that they're five points clear, even though they've got the same wins, their bonus points have been too good. But the Reds, Brynner, that was massive for them, that loss. If they had won that, you feel like they were probably moving clear and they look like a team that should be in the top six.

2626.186 - 2646.051 Bryn Hall

Yeah it is and like I think to be honest with how this draw has happened like the Highlanders pretty much have derby games and they've got a bye coming up so they've pretty much got to be able to try go two from two I think or being able to get at least one of those derby games which I think they have struggled this year and around playing the New Zealand sides and you know the Reds end up playing the Force Moana and the Drua which is at home as well so

Chapter 7: What strategies can the All Blacks employ against strong opponents?

2883.428 - 2903.563 Ross Karl

Including points, because I think there's going to be a lot of people commenting. If you can get the points and the teams right. I'll make the prize worthwhile. It'll be worth your while. Now stay tuned throughout the week. We'll have a full piece on the under-20s coming out. We'll also have a full interview with Ruhe Demand, Black Fern's captain, about her time in the UK and...

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2903.543 - 2922.403 Ross Karl

what she's learned over there, as well as Whitney Hanson's coaching at the Black Ferns and heading into Super Rugby OPIC. Incredibly smart, articulate person. Always a great interview. So be ready to listen to her later on in the week as well. Let's get into our tipping before we go. Now, there's just so much on the line, isn't there?

0

2923.003 - 2931.472 Ross Karl

It's insane how much there is to think about over the next few weeks. But let's start on Friday with the Chiefs versus the Highlanders, Jibber.

0

2931.852 - 2948.738 James Parsons

Chiefs. I just think, you know, like, jeez, the Highlanders can play, but, like, letting the Tars back in like they did, I just think the Chiefs at home, you know, this would put them in really, really strong stead for that second spot, which we know is very, very important.

0

2948.802 - 2966.775 Bryn Hall

I'm going to go with the Chiefs. I think just, yeah, the way they are playing, the way they're able to find ways to win, even when it's ugly. So, yeah, I think, but at the same time, if you give the board a tangi towel, tava tava nā wai, and give them the most opportunities with Nepkins and Otamu Te Vuki as well, they're a chance, but I'll be picking the Chiefs.

2967.155 - 2970.321 Ross Karl

In Fiji, the Tars, do they have any chance, Bryn?

2970.301 - 2984.272 Bryn Hall

They have a chance, but I think this is the possibility end for the Waratahs. I think the draw, being their last game at home and knowing that they need to be able to get this win, with the fact that they're going to be on the road for the next two weeks, they'll know how important it is. So I'll be going for the draw.

2984.633 - 2985.414 James Parsons

Yeah, draw for me.

2986.056 - 2989.423 Ross Karl

The Waratahs just... Blues versus Canes, Brenner.

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