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Chapter 1: What is discussed at the start of this section?
Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, experts on expert. I'm Dax Randall Shepard. I'm joined by Monica Lily Padman. This was a big exception. As you know, UCLA and USC are rivals. They're the enemy if you went to UCLA.
But I got over that so that we could host our guest, who is a professor at the University of Southern California, clinical psychologist and tenured full professor at the University of Southern California, Darby Saxby. Also my favorite name of a guest I think we've had.
Great name.
Darby Saxby. What a fun, fun name. She has a new book out called Dad Brain, The New Science of Fatherhood and How It Shapes Men's Lives.
This is really important stuff.
Yeah, as she will tell us in this, although historically only men have been researched for medicine, which is an atrocity.
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Chapter 2: How does Darby Saxbe's background influence her perspective on fatherhood?
Mostly only women have been researched for parenthood.
Correct.
So that's the counterbalancing disparity. And so she has studied men, thank God. And she's studied dads. And now we've learned a lot about it. And it's very exciting.
It's really fascinating chemically, like what goes on. Yeah.
Dad bod. We get a scientific explanation of dad bod. We sure do. Finally. Please enjoy Darby.
Saxby.
Boom.
He's an object expert.
Nice to meet you.
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Chapter 3: What disparities exist in research between fathers and mothers?
You know, you never know how much downtime you'll have. So I figured I could do some grading.
You're thinking ahead.
Sure. We're in Ohio because, you know, I'm right up the street from you. I think you'll be the guest we had. Yes. And were you in the shadow of Cedar Point?
Oh, of course. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, how close to Sandusky were you?
So I'm from Oberlin. So it's like a small college town. It's between Toledo and Cleveland.
Right. As is Sandusky.
As is Sandusky.
Yeah, yeah.
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Chapter 4: How do societal changes affect modern fatherhood?
And I always thought my dad was like a pretty humble, low-key guy. But in the OR, you have to be like the king. Yeah.
So that's the other factor that I don't even blame them so much, is the role is such that you are at the top of the decision-making. This is the same as a director. Like, if you've been directing movies for 25 years, guess what? You start kind of thinking everyone should value your opinion a little more than they should. It's just kind of inevitable.
Yeah. As a professor running a lab, I work with my grad students and I'm like, they have to listen to me.
Yeah.
It's a powerful narcotic.
Yeah. And then you go home and you're like, all right, no one here gives a shit.
Oh, no. My kids could not be less impressed. Yeah.
So suffice to say, dad had virtually zero experience dadding, even though he was your father, until this divorce. And he had quite a rocky road, but he did figure it out. So just tell us what the experience was like once mom was out of the picture.
Yeah, and I will say that my dad, having read the book, thinks that he was very involved when we were little. So in his defense, and when I tried to qualify it, the book didn't make it so. But he was, I think, an 80s dad. He was pretty hands-off. He was not super involved in our daily routines, our bedtimes.
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Chapter 5: What role do dads play in children's development?
And I think the sports dad is kind of a continuation of that. It's a domain that a lot of dads feel comfortable in. kind of having mastery of.
Yeah. I think we always get into these murky waters of what we're supposed to be doing versus what kind of yields better outcomes. Are there domains that are best served by mom or dad? I mean, play is one of them, but can you think of others?
Yeah. And I think even with play, like I'm always careful to not be too gender essentialist, right? Because there are totally moms that love to wrestle and are physical. And there are totally dads that are the more cerebral parent or the more affectionate parent. But I think what works best for kids is when each parent has their own relationship and the kid gets exposed to different styles.
Chapter 6: How do parenting styles differ between mothers and fathers?
Mm-hmm. Right? You can have a really secure attachment to more than one parent. And the research suggests that dads and moms don't actually have dramatically different levels of attachment to their kids. So it's healthy for kids to realize there are safe, secure caregivers that I can depend on. And if this person isn't available, I can go to this person. Sometimes that's a child care provider.
Sometimes that's mom or a grandparent or a dad. Different people have their own style. And kids, again, learn to be adaptable. They learn to be flexible.
But there's no dead-end streets, or are there? And we're just afraid to admit that.
Like what would a dead end street be?
I don't know.
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Chapter 7: What impact does fatherhood have on men's health and longevity?
I just think of this imperative someone said, and it's just proven to be true, which is like, you should not teach your kids to do stuff. If you want to take them skiing, bring in an outsider. They don't do well listening to you for that kind of thing. Or if you want to teach them piano lessons, get someone else that doesn't have all this murky.
So I just wonder if we're trying to encourage men or women to do things that like, it's not really going to bear the outcome we want.
Yeah, I do think because we don't have the collective network of caregivers that maybe we evolved to have, a lot of pressure is on mom and dad, the nuclear family. And they're trying to play all roles in a kid's life. And I think as to whether parents can be good teachers, I know for my kids, definitely not. They don't want to listen to me.
My son is in a phase where he wants to make hip hop beats all day long.
Chapter 8: How can societal views on fatherhood change for the better?
My husband is a music producer. Oh, wow. And you think it's like, you know, dad does this for a living. He could advise on your beats like no interest. I think it's good for kids to have their own things.
Again, a brand new concept with the exception of when someone's partner died. The step parent is like an entirely new construct.
Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.
You yourself had a kind of a fun arc with Dave that I'd like to hear about. And tell me what the role of a step parent is, a father. I've had only bad, well, the last one was good, but I've had really bad experiences.
Yeah, I had a sort of bad experience that became good. I did not want my parents to get divorced. I blamed my stepfather. And we had a really combative relationship when I was a teenager. Lots of fighting, tears, yelling. And he was a really good cook. So that was actually one thing that helped me forge a connection with him.
But beyond that, if you had asked me when I was like a 14-year-old, I would have said my stepdad sucks. And it was really only as I got older that I appreciated. He was a poet. He was a writer. He was a translator. He was an English professor at Oberlin, where I grew up. And was this, like, source of wisdom. He loved to travel.
It sounds like the antithesis of your father, who's a surgeon in many ways.
Yeah. Different vibes. And I think I got a lot from both of those relationships. Yeah. When I became an academic, it was partially because I had seen David. I mean, basically his job just seemed fun. He could come home early after teaching a class and play Nintendo baseball. And he just seemed like he had a really chill job. And my parents were always working.
So I was like, well, obviously being a professor is great.
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