Join Dr. Regan for the second episode of the series "Talking About Autism." This episode focuses on how the thoughtful navigation of emotions during conversations about autism can create space and freedom for more discussions. New Course for Clinicians - Interventions in Autism: Helping Clients Stay Centered, Connect with Others, and Engage in Life New Course for Clinicians: ASD Differential Diagnoses and Associated Characteristics Dr. Regan's Resources Book: Understanding Autism in Adults and Aging Adults, 2nd ed Audiobook Book: Understanding Autistic Behaviors Autism in the Adult website Resources for Clinicians Read the transcript: 00:00:05,740 -- 00:00:06,480 Hello, 3 00:00:06,490 -- 00:00:12,460 This is Dr Theresa Regan. Thank you for joining me for this episode of Autism in the Adult. 4 00:00:13,140 -- 00:00:19,260 I am happy that you're joining us for this series called Talking about Autism. 5 00:00:19,270 -- 00:00:37,150 This is the second episode, and I had originally predicted it was going to be about talking to others when you see autistic characteristics in them and you wonder if a diagnostic evaluation would be helpful for them? 6 00:00:38,740 -- 00:00:44,170 What happened is that, as I'm mulling around the topics for the series, 7 00:00:44,180 -- 00:00:49,560 I really couldn't get my mind off what was going to be the 3rd episode -- 8 00:00:50,140 -- 00:00:56,260 which I'm going to call "navigating emotional atmospheres"... when we're talking about autism. 9 00:00:57,040 -- 00:01:13,790 And I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to cover that topic here in the second episode because I feel like it's really important to consider before we talk to other people about autistic characteristics. 10 00:01:13,790 -- 00:01:20,860 How would we navigate the emotions that are sometimes present around the topic itself? 11 00:01:21,640 -- 00:01:39,160 Last episode we talked about Talking About Autism when you are on a journey toward evaluation yourself ... when you're considering that, or when you have a new diagnosis and you might want to talk to people about your diagnosis and about autism. 12 00:01:40,640 -- 00:01:40,960 So, 13 00:01:40,960 -- 00:01:50,260 this episode is going to be focused a little bit more on navigating the complexity of people's emotional responses. 14 00:01:50,740 -- 00:01:54,850 And as we talked about in the first episode, 15 00:01:54,850 -- 00:02:03,690 it really is an emotionally charged topic and in some ways that's a bit mystifying to me. 16 00:02:03,700 -- 00:02:12,650 ... the amount of emotion people have about a topic that sometimes they're not even really impacted by on a personal level, 18 00:02:15,840 -- 00:02:22,160 but talking about autism often does involve navigating emotional atmospheres. 19 00:02:22,780 -- 00:02:23,000 Um, 20 00:02:23,000 -- 00:02:27,760 and it's hard to predict what the atmosphere is going to look like or how complex it is. 21 00:02:29,040 -- 00:02:38,010 Sometimes the atmosphere may be charged because we would like to talk to someone about the topic and how it impacts, 22 00:02:38,010 -- 00:02:38,690 let's say, 23 00:02:38,690 -- 00:02:40,110 our own family, 24 00:02:40,120 -- 00:02:44,600 or how it impacts someone in the family or how it impacts you. 25 00:02:44,610 -- 00:02:51,730 And there can just be this unusual response of 26 00:02:51,740 -- 00:02:53,630 a lot of emotional charge. 27 00:02:53,640 -- 00:03:04,360 I spoke with a young woman recently who was saying that she was shocked at how angry people in her family were when she brought the topic up. 28 00:03:04,940 -- 00:03:10,160 And that is not an unusual thing for someone to share, that 29 00:03:10,170 -- 00:03:12,310 it can really charge people up. 30 00:03:12,320 -- 00:03:13,660 And um, 31 00:03:14,350 -- 00:03:17,440 sometimes you're not just bringing up a topic, 32 00:03:17,450 -- 00:03:22,560 you're bringing up all this emotional processing and content. 33 00:03:24,240 -- 00:03:25,270 Other times, 34 00:03:25,270 -- 00:03:30,560 people on this journey toward an autism diagnosis or self awareness, 35 00:03:30,940 -- 00:03:33,150 they may feel other emotions too. 36 00:03:33,150 -- 00:03:39,460 They might feel relief that they finally understand how they're wired. 37 00:03:39,940 -- 00:03:40,330 Um, 38 00:03:40,330 -- 00:03:51,550 they might share that this is such a meaningful and important thing to them that they really have a lot of emotion about the value of the diagnosis. 39 00:03:52,140 -- 00:03:55,130 Other people may really be in a different spot. 40 00:03:55,130 -- 00:03:59,150 They might be in this spot where they're processing. 41 00:03:59,160 -- 00:03:59,740 Um, 42 00:03:59,750 -- 00:04:01,040 just surprise. 43 00:04:01,040 -- 00:04:05,950 Like they were not expecting it, processing maybe grief or fear. 44 00:04:05,960 -- 00:04:06,730 Um, 45 00:04:06,740 -- 00:04:24,830 a lot of emotions can come with this diagnosis or this discussion. And for people who have been in the autistic community for a while and they have this deep passion to advocate for, 46 00:04:24,840 -- 00:04:25,670 um, 47 00:04:25,680 -- 00:04:27,930 anyone who um, 48 00:04:27,940 -- 00:04:37,810 has diversity in their neurology ... and many times that passion comes with a lot of emotional charge as well. 49 00:04:38,080 -- 00:04:55,940 And so we may have people who are so passionate about what language is used or how we should interact with others or support others or whether we should have interventions for autism or not. 50 00:04:55,950 -- 00:05:09,050 So there can also be this passionate approach to what is right or wrong to say or do for the autistic individual or within the community. 51 00:05:11,240 -- 00:05:22,150 What can happen is that the presence of this emotion can shut down the discussion before it's really launched. 52 00:05:22,540 -- 00:05:31,980 So we have something come up and it's responded to with strong emotion and it's very common, 53 00:05:31,980 -- 00:05:39,190 I think for that strong emotion to overtake the topic itself and then people in the room realize, 54 00:05:39,200 -- 00:05:40,000 oh, 55 00:05:40,010 -- 00:05:40,570 okay, 56 00:05:40,570 -- 00:05:42,960 this is not okay to talk about. 57 00:05:42,970 -- 00:05:45,830 This was a really strong, 58 00:05:45,840 -- 00:05:47,050 passionate, 59 00:05:47,580 -- 00:05:54,850 intense reaction and I feel like I'm getting the emotional message that this is not okay. 60 00:05:56,140 -- 00:05:56,830 In fact, 61 00:05:56,840 -- 00:05:58,530 I think to myself, 62 00:05:58,540 -- 00:06:06,830 if I wanted to make sure that it was not okay to talk about some particular topic and that everyone around me knew it, 63 00:06:06,840 -- 00:06:13,160 I probably would be very quick to have emotional responses. 64 00:06:13,170 -- 00:06:20,350 I'd probably be ready with criticism or judgment or correction or logical arguments. 65 00:06:20,740 -- 00:06:21,440 Um, 66 00:06:21,450 -- 00:06:27,850 maybe even just joking at someone's expense or whatever I could do to make 67 00:06:28,740 -- 00:06:35,360 the discussion so intense that people realize that needs to be shut down. 68 00:06:35,740 -- 00:06:43,170 So when I am approaching this topic of how do we say autism is okay to talk about? 69 00:06:43,170 -- 00:06:44,830 Let's bring it to the table. 70 00:06:44,830 -- 00:06:46,160 It's always okay. 71 00:06:46,160 -- 00:06:48,100 How do we create that atmosphere? 72 00:06:48,110 -- 00:06:54,350 I think one of the things we focus on is protecting the emotional atmosphere. 73 00:06:54,840 -- 00:06:55,610 Um, 74 00:06:55,620 -- 00:07:10,600 and being aware that the emotions that we are filtering into the conversation may actually really detract from someone's comfort level of bringing it up. 75 00:07:10,670 -- 00:07:14,860 It may detract from people's ability to process the topic itself. 76 00:07:15,240 -- 00:07:21,230 And so I'm just really conscious of trying to attend to that. 77 00:07:21,240 -- 00:07:24,060 Whenever I speak with someone about the topic, 78 00:07:28,340 -- 00:07:31,780 there's a lot of emotion about what to call things. 79 00:07:31,790 -- 00:07:34,310 So what language are we using? 80 00:07:34,320 -- 00:07:46,700 Some people really strongly want the language of "the autistic individual" or "the autistic" because they really self identify with that neurology. 81 00:07:46,700 -- 00:07:47,620 It's who they are. 82 00:07:47,620 -- 00:07:49,000 It's how they're knit together. 83 00:07:49,340 -- 00:07:51,650 They welcome that identification. 84 00:07:52,040 -- 00:07:57,090 Other people do not want to be known as an autistic individual. 85 00:07:57,090 -- 00:08:07,660 They feel more comfortable saying they are an individual on the spectrum or they have autism, and other people have strong emotions against that. 86 00:08:07,940 -- 00:08:18,120 So we even have this really emotional response to what words are okay to use and that can really um, 87 00:08:18,130 -- 00:08:20,360 come into the discussion as well. 88 00:08:21,740 -- 00:08:29,510 People may have very charged reactions about the, 89 00:08:29,790 -- 00:08:33,420 the peaks and valleys of anyone's journey and by that, 90 00:08:33,420 -- 00:08:37,460 I mean that in our culture, 91 00:08:37,470 -- 00:08:51,060 if someone is struggling with something and oftentimes people on a journey toward diagnosis have come to that journey because they've hit some season of struggle. 92 00:08:51,440 -- 00:08:52,550 Um, 93 00:08:52,940 -- 00:08:54,130 in our culture, 94 00:08:54,130 -- 00:09:07,990 we're very focused on fixing these struggles and sometimes that in itself can shut down discussions about complex things, 95 00:09:07,990 -- 00:09:10,660 about things that are not easily fixed. 96 00:09:12,540 -- 00:09:21,670 People on a journey probably get a lot of advice before they get to this journey of assessment for autism. 97 00:09:21,740 -- 00:09:24,560 They've probably gotten a lot of advice like, 98 00:09:25,040 -- 00:09:25,370 uh, 99 00:09:25,380 -- 00:09:30,900 "that wouldn't happen in my house" or "this is how we did it and it fixed it completely," 100 00:09:30,910 -- 00:09:32,540 or um, 101 00:09:32,550 -- 00:09:38,510 "these are the seven steps to being free from anxiety and if you do these, 102 00:09:38,520 -- 00:09:40,660 then you shouldn't have a problem." 103 00:09:43,040 -- 00:09:43,400 Um, 104 00:09:43,410 -- 00:09:45,270 in my own personal journey, 105 00:09:45,270 -- 00:09:47,540 I really experienced that a lot. 106 00:09:47,550 -- 00:09:48,300 Um, 107 00:09:48,310 -- 00:09:51,940 as a parent, and I know this podcast is about adults, 108 00:09:51,940 -- 00:09:56,750 but the topic of emotional processing um, 109 00:09:56,760 -- 00:10:00,460 is just a very human topic across the lifespan. 110 00:10:01,140 -- 00:10:01,500 Now, 111 00:10:01,500 -- 00:10:05,210 one of the things that my son on the spectrum struggled with, 112 00:10:05,220 -- 00:10:05,750 um, 113 00:10:05,760 -- 00:10:09,090 so much was sleep and also as an infant, 114 00:10:09,090 -- 00:10:12,310 he was just very colicky and upset. 115 00:10:12,310 -- 00:10:12,500 He, 116 00:10:12,500 -- 00:10:14,960 he had a difficulty calming. 117 00:10:15,340 -- 00:10:16,110 Um, 118 00:10:16,120 -- 00:10:18,550 and a lot of things went into that, 119 00:10:18,550 -- 00:10:20,050 but um, 120 00:10:20,050 -- 00:10:23,880 we were really struggling with a sleep issue. 121 00:10:23,880 -- 00:10:30,260 And in fact he didn't End up sleeping through the night on a consistent basis until he was eight years old. 122 00:10:30,740 -- 00:10:34,020 And that was really difficult on him. 123 00:10:34,030 -- 00:10:48,410 It made all the other features more difficult for him to manage and it impacted our resilience to and our ability to um really sustain wellness as a household. 124 00:10:48,410 -- 00:10:50,550 So I remember um, 125 00:10:50,560 -- 00:10:52,260 getting this, 126 00:10:52,270 -- 00:11:07,050 he was in daycare twice a week and I went to pick him up one day when he was 10 months old and the nursery leader who had had him in her, 127 00:11:07,060 -- 00:11:10,360 they call it class in her class for um, 128 00:11:10,370 -- 00:11:13,020 from the beginning of when we started going, 129 00:11:13,530 -- 00:11:21,880 she left me a note and it said "his crying is disruptive to the class. 130 00:11:22,440 -- 00:11:25,050 Please have him better by tomorrow." 131 00:11:26,030 -- 00:11:31,570 And that is kind of an example of this, 132 00:11:33,740 -- 00:11:46,730 this mindset that things can be fixed if only you're good enough parent or if only you're committed enough to be um, 133 00:11:46,740 -- 00:11:52,960 a calm person or if only you're committed enough to be a good spouse, 134 00:11:53,040 -- 00:11:53,410 you know, 135 00:11:53,410 -- 00:11:54,750 whatever that looks like. 136 00:11:55,590 -- 00:12:00,270 And not only was I a struggling mom, 137 00:12:00,290 -- 00:12:05,210 but now I had been told that I should have this fixed. 138 00:12:05,220 -- 00:12:08,260 I should be able to fix it. 139 00:12:09,010 -- 00:12:14,770 And also another example when he was 140 00:12:14,780 -- 00:12:16,200 a couple of years old, 141 00:12:16,200 -- 00:12:17,470 two or three years old. 142 00:12:17,480 -- 00:12:22,840 I was looking into Melatonin to assist with sleep. 143 00:12:22,850 -- 00:12:49,260 And I read the reviews online for different products and a mother on their wrote this scathing comment that um using Melatonin for children is child abuse because um any good parents should know how to get their kids down for bed and that would never happen in her house. 144 00:12:49,640 -- 00:12:52,450 So it was long... long, 145 00:12:52,450 -- 00:12:54,130 that's the gist of it though. 146 00:12:54,140 -- 00:12:55,850 Um and so, 147 00:12:55,860 -- 00:12:56,420 you know, 148 00:12:56,420 -- 00:13:05,290 these messages that are so emotionally intense and not only does it bring about this shame and blame and hopelessness, 149 00:13:05,300 -- 00:13:09,780 but it also creates this atmosphere where it's clear 150 00:13:09,780 -- 00:13:12,310 it is not okay to say that you're struggling. 151 00:13:12,640 -- 00:13:24,460 Um it's not okay to bring up um that you've tried everything and you don't know what's going on um because not only are you struggling, 152 00:13:24,460 -- 00:13:34,460 but apparently it's also something that you could very well fix um, and you should fix and therefore the struggle is also your fault. 153 00:13:34,940 -- 00:13:39,680 So these emotional um... these emotional charges, 154 00:13:39,690 -- 00:13:48,370 I think really dampen our ability to give people the freedom to talk about all the ups and downs of their life, 155 00:13:48,370 -- 00:13:53,590 like life is messy and good and hard and you know, 156 00:13:53,590 -- 00:14:00,860 I feel like I can bring up any topic um and realize that it's okay to share that. 157 00:14:01,340 -- 00:14:02,320 Instead. 158 00:14:02,320 -- 00:14:10,550 I think we have a lot of emotional overtones to what's okay to bring up and what's okay to talk about. 159 00:14:12,640 -- 00:14:19,860 I remember um being struck too uh when my son was about a year old, 160 00:14:20,440 -- 00:14:23,870 one of my colleagues had an infant, 161 00:14:23,870 -- 00:14:25,170 this was her first child, 162 00:14:25,180 -- 00:14:29,840 and after I think five days after she was born, 163 00:14:29,850 -- 00:14:39,100 um my colleague brought her in and she was just this bundle of pink, cute as can be, slept the whole time. 164 00:14:39,600 -- 00:14:41,610 And you know, 165 00:14:41,610 -- 00:14:45,860 that was so different than what was happening in my home. 166 00:14:46,340 -- 00:14:47,890 And she said, 167 00:14:47,890 -- 00:14:48,360 gosh, 168 00:14:48,360 -- 00:14:52,560 I'm really a little um nervous and watchful, 169 00:14:52,560 -- 00:14:56,110 because I have to wake her up in the middle of the night for her to eat. 170 00:14:56,120 -- 00:14:56,660 You know, 171 00:14:56,660 -- 00:15:00,210 she's already sleeping through and I'm a little nervous about, 172 00:15:00,220 -- 00:15:00,550 you know, 173 00:15:00,550 -- 00:15:02,780 her nutrition, and, of course, 174 00:15:02,790 -- 00:15:06,760 here I am not sleeping for a year. 175 00:15:07,240 -- 00:15:11,010 And another colleague said to her, 176 00:15:11,250 -- 00:15:11,690 "oh, 177 00:15:11,690 -- 00:15:13,810 what a good baby you have." 178 00:15:14,440 -- 00:15:21,250 And usually I'm very measured in my speech and I think about what I say ahead of time, 179 00:15:21,250 -- 00:15:33,860 but I felt this surge going from my toes up to my ... my voice and I blurted out, "all babies are good." 180 00:15:35,140 -- 00:15:36,560 And she said, 181 00:15:36,560 -- 00:15:37,340 "well, 182 00:15:37,360 -- 00:15:37,950 yeah, 183 00:15:37,950 -- 00:15:39,360 but you know what I mean?" 184 00:15:39,840 -- 00:15:48,370 And I realized that we attach goodness to a baby, 185 00:15:48,370 -- 00:15:49,860 that's easy. 186 00:15:50,590 -- 00:15:51,130 I said, 187 00:15:51,130 -- 00:15:51,520 "you mean, 188 00:15:51,520 -- 00:15:53,950 she's easy and that's good." 189 00:15:55,040 -- 00:15:57,020 But all babies are good. 190 00:15:57,030 -- 00:16:08,250 So I think we have to watch our emotional tone so that we make sure everyone knows that every infant has value. 191 00:16:08,260 -- 00:16:11,660 Every individual is important. 192 00:16:12,120 -- 00:16:13,060 There aren't, 193 00:16:13,070 -- 00:16:13,960 you know, 194 00:16:14,640 -- 00:16:16,990 good babies and bad babies. 195 00:16:17,440 -- 00:16:26,460 There are struggling babies and babies that are not struggling and so forth across the whole lifespan, 196 00:16:26,840 -- 00:16:35,150 that our emotional charge can sometimes make people feel less than good, less than valued. 197 00:16:36,060 -- 00:17:00,150 And so I think that really became apparent to me and I'm much more aware of protecting the emotional atmosphere when I'm speaking to someone to really protect that they understand that they are important and that we're having this tough discussion because their well being is important. 198 00:17:01,840 -- 00:17:12,020 What I started to think about is that even though I want people to be have the freedom and the space to be where they're at, 199 00:17:12,020 -- 00:17:13,920 whether they're celebrating this, 200 00:17:13,930 -- 00:17:15,600 whether they're relieved, 201 00:17:15,600 -- 00:17:16,960 whether they're struggling, 202 00:17:17,540 -- 00:17:23,120 whether they're upset about the diagnosis or the concept, 203 00:17:23,130 -- 00:17:25,450 I want to give people space, 204 00:17:25,630 -- 00:17:35,460 they don't have to react in a certain way in order to be good or in order to please me just because I'm in a different place. 205 00:17:36,840 -- 00:17:38,220 On the other hand, 206 00:17:38,230 -- 00:17:48,060 I really want to balance that freedom to feel with my own awareness of protecting the emotional atmosphere. 207 00:17:49,140 -- 00:18:09,170 There are some emotions that I really um try to protect people from during our conversations and The Big one I would say that I never feel is helpful in the conversation is shame. 208 00:18:10,240 -- 00:18:15,780 Um I just feel like that is so easy. 209 00:18:16,940 -- 00:18:29,670 Mhm uh emotionally to bring into conversations when someone is struggling that I really try to be very careful to protect what's going on from any shame. 210 00:18:30,140 -- 00:18:36,760 Um and I would also say emotions like hopelessness, 211 00:18:36,760 -- 00:18:37,620 helplessness, 212 00:18:37,620 -- 00:18:42,780 worthlessness, and it's okay for people to feel fear... 213 00:18:42,780 -- 00:18:48,380 But I do try to protect from that just global fear that doesn't leave, 214 00:18:48,390 -- 00:18:48,680 you know, 215 00:18:48,680 -- 00:18:50,360 this is not a season of fear. 216 00:18:50,360 -- 00:18:56,230 This is "I am afraid of a diagnosis in general." 217 00:18:56,640 -- 00:19:01,100 And so I try to have some protection for that. 218 00:19:02,740 -- 00:19:04,010 By protection. 219 00:19:04,020 -- 00:19:07,640 I mean that I try to really monitor my own language. 220 00:19:07,650 -- 00:19:10,300 I try to acknowledge what people are saying, 221 00:19:10,300 -- 00:19:11,770 but I do point out, 222 00:19:12,340 -- 00:19:13,110 um, 223 00:19:13,120 -- 00:19:18,270 when I feel like an emotion is really just working against their wellness, 224 00:19:18,640 -- 00:19:19,080 you know, 225 00:19:19,080 -- 00:19:23,950 it sounds like this is about shame and there is no criticism here. 226 00:19:24,440 -- 00:19:26,460 This is not a criticism. 227 00:19:26,920 -- 00:19:38,230 This is to increase your power to understand yourself to be able to get centered when you're just feeling off center. 228 00:19:39,010 -- 00:19:40,860 This is not a criticism. 229 00:19:41,740 -- 00:19:46,170 So I may say things like that to protect the atmosphere. 230 00:19:51,740 -- 00:20:00,630 I also try to explain to people if they are in a point of struggle about the topic, 231 00:20:00,640 -- 00:20:02,360 let's say I've brought it up. 232 00:20:03,440 -- 00:20:05,360 They're struggling with the topic. 233 00:20:06,950 -- 00:20:22,850 I try to explain why I bring up what feels like a difficult topic to them and my memory goes back to when my son was in preschool. 234 00:20:23,440 -- 00:20:23,770 Uh, 235 00:20:23,780 -- 00:20:33,270 it was an early intervention preschool and he had started showing at the age of three some additional um, 236 00:20:35,340 -- 00:20:37,860 characteristics that, 237 00:20:38,360 -- 00:20:38,660 you know, 238 00:20:38,660 -- 00:20:45,520 we later realized were part of the autism and I in a parent teacher meeting. 239 00:20:45,520 -- 00:20:48,360 There were two teachers in me and I said, 240 00:20:48,360 -- 00:20:51,470 have you started seeing these kinds of things for him? 241 00:20:51,470 -- 00:20:52,860 Because we're seeing that a lot. 242 00:20:53,330 -- 00:20:58,020 And I remember vividly that they both looked at each other, 243 00:20:58,020 -- 00:21:03,700 both teachers and didn't say anything and then looked at me and said, 244 00:21:03,700 -- 00:21:07,050 well we'll just start to work on that... they hadn't seen it. 245 00:21:07,940 -- 00:21:27,030 And I knew darrn well that they knew something that I didn't and that it didn't feel to them like it was okay to bring up and then I felt too afraid to push it because I'm like, 246 00:21:27,040 -- 00:21:27,530 oh, 247 00:21:27,800 -- 00:21:29,810 if this is not okay to talk about, 248 00:21:29,810 -- 00:21:31,350 do I really want to know? 249 00:21:31,840 -- 00:21:33,180 But to be honest, 250 00:21:33,190 -- 00:21:36,850 I needed to know I needed that information. 251 00:21:37,240 -- 00:21:46,050 It didn't help me to be in the dark for two more years about what we could have been really understanding better. 252 00:21:46,940 -- 00:21:51,350 Um So when I'm talking to someone in that position, 253 00:21:52,730 -- 00:21:54,560 I may say something like, 254 00:21:54,940 -- 00:21:55,680 you know, 255 00:21:55,680 -- 00:22:06,460 it's because your well being is so important that I will always bring up topics that impact your well being, 256 00:22:06,460 -- 00:22:20,270 even if they're ... they feel tough because you are important and it's important to talk about these things and I'm a person that will do that with you. 257 00:22:21,540 -- 00:22:30,390 Um So I also try to bring it to the table when it's about to be shut down again, 258 00:22:30,390 -- 00:22:34,360 tying it to their their well being, 259 00:22:34,360 -- 00:22:36,780 their worth and my value for them. 260 00:22:38,350 -- 00:22:41,730 I've also I started to think, 261 00:22:43,340 -- 00:22:44,110 you know, 262 00:22:44,120 -- 00:22:52,020 what do I want people to leave a conversation with me with? 263 00:22:52,020 -- 00:22:53,640 What do I want him to leave with? 264 00:22:53,700 -- 00:22:54,040 Well, 265 00:22:54,050 -- 00:22:57,080 I'd like them of course to leave with some information. 266 00:22:57,080 -- 00:23:09,860 But even more so I realize that what is most impactful is I want them to leave knowing that they are valued. 267 00:23:10,440 -- 00:23:12,990 I want them to leave without fear. 268 00:23:13,540 -- 00:23:18,360 I want them to feel empowered and courageous and supported. 269 00:23:19,540 -- 00:23:24,670 So when I am interacting with them about the topic, 270 00:23:25,240 -- 00:23:28,770 am I providing data and information of course, 271 00:23:30,040 -- 00:23:54,770 but I'm very watchful that ultimately my goal is to have them sit with me in this experience and to be able to leave with a sense of freedom and being supported and for them to leave and say, 272 00:23:55,940 -- 00:24:03,450 I feel like I was seen because that's really important. 273 00:24:05,540 -- 00:24:09,610 I want to share a personal experience, 274 00:24:10,160 -- 00:24:15,950 just two to round out this episode. 275 00:24:17,040 -- 00:24:19,050 And um, 276 00:24:21,540 -- 00:24:35,850 I got to the point where I did want to process this with my son's pediatrician When he was about four. 277 00:24:36,340 -- 00:24:44,050 And I came to that on my own by research and watching him. 278 00:24:44,050 -- 00:24:47,680 And um I decided, 279 00:24:47,830 -- 00:24:48,290 you know, 280 00:24:48,290 -- 00:24:50,250 it's time to talk about this. 281 00:24:50,570 -- 00:25:11,550 And my reluctance to talk about it with him was because I know that even physicians get emotionally charged about the topic and I did not want to get into any kind of push or pull and I did not know his opinion. 282 00:25:11,560 -- 00:25:19,450 He was our third pediatrician to be honest and I just did not know him that well. 283 00:25:20,330 -- 00:25:30,670 And because I knew it might be a topic that might get shut down or there might be an emotional charge. 284 00:25:32,340 -- 00:25:35,220 I practiced what I was going to say ahead of time. 285 00:25:35,230 -- 00:25:36,780 Like a lot. 286 00:25:36,790 -- 00:25:39,510 You know how you feel like I'm going in. 287 00:25:39,520 -- 00:25:41,550 I have this one appointment. 288 00:25:41,560 -- 00:25:43,110 I don't know this person, 289 00:25:43,120 -- 00:25:47,760 but I need to make sure I'm thinking clearly enough to get these things across. 290 00:25:48,640 -- 00:25:54,580 So I practiced and I wrote things down and the appointment got rescheduled three times. 291 00:25:54,590 -- 00:25:57,360 So it's one of those things and you're waiting. 292 00:25:57,740 -- 00:26:02,610 And I went to the appointment. 293 00:26:02,610 -- 00:26:04,760 So I was kind of armed with, 294 00:26:05,540 -- 00:26:08,580 you know what I wanted to say? 295 00:26:08,580 -- 00:26:13,340 But I was very watchful about how this would go. 296 00:26:14,120 -- 00:26:24,600 And I also had received so much advice for so long without really getting assistance. 297 00:26:24,610 -- 00:26:28,540 And I didn't want that to be the case either. 298 00:26:28,790 -- 00:26:32,460 I really wanted to talk. 299 00:26:32,470 -- 00:26:41,860 I wanted someone to talk with me about a difficult thing and a complex thing and I wanted um something substantive to do next. 300 00:26:43,040 -- 00:26:46,370 So we discussed a lot of things. 301 00:26:46,380 -- 00:26:52,850 Um He referred us to the autism diagnostic clinic at our local easter seals. 302 00:26:53,340 -- 00:26:55,990 Uh and then that wait list started of course. 303 00:26:56,540 -- 00:26:59,520 Um So did he give me information? 304 00:26:59,520 -- 00:27:00,310 Yes. 305 00:27:00,320 -- 00:27:01,960 Did he give me a plan? 306 00:27:01,960 -- 00:27:02,940 Absolutely. 307 00:27:02,950 -- 00:27:05,960 But when I left that office, 308 00:27:06,640 -- 00:27:11,210 what was life changing for me ... was mostly something else. 309 00:27:12,440 -- 00:27:20,800 And what it was was that at the end of our talk... and I still get emotional about this. 310 00:27:20,850 -- 00:27:22,390 At the end of our talk, 311 00:27:22,390 -- 00:27:24,110 he looked at me and he said, 312 00:27:24,110 -- 00:27:24,590 "I hope, 313 00:27:24,590 -- 00:27:33,710 you know you're a good mom"... and I had practiced what to say in this session. 314 00:27:33,710 -- 00:27:35,160 But I, 315 00:27:35,300 -- 00:27:36,600 my mouth hung open. 316 00:27:36,600 -- 00:27:57,550 I was literally speechless and I realized in that moment that nobody had ever said that to me and I knew darn well that if I asked my friends or my family, 317 00:27:57,550 -- 00:27:58,800 do you think I'm a good mom? 318 00:27:58,800 -- 00:27:59,320 They would say, 319 00:27:59,320 -- 00:28:01,300 well of course you are. 320 00:28:01,330 -- 00:28:02,860 That goes without saying. 321 00:28:04,440 -- 00:28:06,350 But I realized it doesn't, 322 00:28:06,590 -- 00:28:19,200 it doesn't go without saying because we get all these messages that we're doing something wrong or our struggle would be gone if we knew what we were doing. 323 00:28:21,540 -- 00:28:23,550 Nobody had ever said, 324 00:28:24,740 -- 00:28:25,190 I hope, 325 00:28:25,190 -- 00:28:25,450 you know, 326 00:28:25,450 -- 00:28:36,770 you're a good mom that has never left me. 327 00:28:37,240 -- 00:28:43,700 It took no skill to say he didn't have to be an autism expert and he was not. 328 00:28:44,840 -- 00:28:54,790 But when I left the emotional atmosphere had been protected and I left feeling seen and heard and valued. 329 00:28:55,840 -- 00:29:07,160 And that gave me the courage to keep going to talk about something that is complex and emotionally charged. 330 00:29:07,840 -- 00:29:26,480 And sometimes what we need to make people understand is that we see the heart that they have for their kids or we see all the detective work they've done to try to figure themselves out that we see their value. 331 00:29:26,480 -- 00:29:27,560 We see them. 332 00:29:28,640 -- 00:29:29,660 We honor them. 333 00:29:29,660 -- 00:29:31,060 We respect them. 334 00:29:32,440 -- 00:29:32,970 Um, 335 00:29:32,980 -- 00:29:35,600 and that's something we think goes without saying, 336 00:29:35,600 -- 00:29:36,890 but it really doesn't. 337 00:29:36,900 -- 00:29:45,910 And so that's what I mean by navigating emotional atmospheres and protecting emotional atmospheres. 338 00:29:46,600 -- 00:30:00,420 That sometimes the one thing we can do to open up a discussion where people feel free and safe enough to talk about something complex is to say, 339 00:30:00,420 -- 00:30:05,270 I see you and you're important and I'm glad you're here. 340 00:30:05,460 -- 00:30:06,560 And let's talk about it. 341 00:30:10,240 -- 00:30:15,330 I hope you'll join me next time for our final episode in the series, 342 00:30:15,340 -- 00:30:22,510 which is about talking about autism to others when you see autistic characteristics in them. 343 00:30:22,510 -- 00:30:25,240 But but they're not expecting this discussion. 344 00:30:25,240 -- 00:30:25,860 This is, 345 00:30:26,040 -- 00:30:26,380 you know, 346 00:30:26,380 -- 00:30:27,720 something you want to bring up. 347 00:30:27,730 -- 00:30:30,660 But should I bring it up and how could I bring it up? 348 00:30:30,940 -- 00:30:40,860 Um That will be our next discussion and I will see you then.

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.

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