Chapter 1: What is discussed at the start of this section?
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Welcome to the shit show. Things are going to get weird. It's your fave villain, Kale Lowry. And you're listening to Barely Famous. Welcome back to another episode of Barely Famous Podcast.
Chapter 2: When did Lee Hammock get diagnosed with narcissism?
Today, I'm sitting with Lee Hammack. You may have seen him pop up on your TikTok feed, maybe Instagram, and he is a diagnosed narcissist, and I am super fascinated by this. So welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me on.
Yeah, of course. Okay, so first, I want to say I've been following you for absolutely so long, probably years. And so you're a diagnosed narcissist. When did you get diagnosed?
uh in 2018. i've been in therapy since 2017 though so i've been in therapy since for about nine years but i got diagnosed in like early 2018.
Did you know what narcissism was when you were diagnosed?
The only kind of, like, welcoming to narcissism I had had was, you know, just growing up, you hear narcissist, you think, like, egotistical. You think, like, self-confident person. You don't think, like, personality disorder or mental illness. But, like, it was, like, 2017. My wife called me a narcissist. She was like, it's so damn hard living with a narcissist. I was like... You're a narcissist.
It take me five minutes to get ready. It take you hours to get ready. You worried about how you look, blah, blah, blah. And she ended up kind of leaving for a few days. And while she was gone, I was, what I refer to as angry Googling. I got on Google and I was super angry. I was like, what is a narcissist? Why she call me this? And I was like, wait. This kind of makes sense for my life.
I was like, man, this might be it. And I remember texting her and I was like, you know what? You're right. I am a narcissist.
Did that hurt for you to admit that?
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Chapter 3: What does Lee reveal about his journey into therapy?
And I was just like, so when I came home and so much was going, I was like, wait, how did, and I was just sitting in the, I was like, I'm not paying attention to nobody but me. I was like, this is stupid. So I literally, you know, I reached back out to my therapist and like set up appointment that week. And I hadn't talked to her in a few months. And she was like, so what's new with you?
I was like, well, my wife left. You know, the first thing on her mouth was?
What?
She's like, what did you do? I was like, wait, me?
What am I?
Well, she's not leaving for no reason. I was like, why it got to be me? She's like, because I know when you don't talk to me, because we've been talking for two and a half years, it's easy to go back to how you were before. I was like, ah. I was like, well, I was probably emotionally neglectful doing just panicking because of COVID. And I just like kind of logged out mentally and emotionally.
And yeah. I remember asking my therapist, I was like, well, how do I get her back? How do I get her to come back home? And my therapist was like, this is why I love my therapist, because she was like legit, she straight up, she was like, you can't. I was like, why do I need to talk to you then? But you know, she was like, let me rephrase that.
You probably can get her back because y'all have kids together. You're a good talker, you can make her laugh, you do all this other stuff. So you can probably get her back. But when you get her back and she realized you haven't changed, She'll leave again. And next time it would be permanent. And I was just like, okay, damn it. So I got to commit to making serious changes.
So when I got back into therapy, and this was over virtual, right? I'm like, because it's virtual. I'm sitting in my shed at home. I'm like, I'm going to be 100% honest with her. So I'm sitting there. I get chill bugged. I used to take like, I'd be so nervous before therapy. I just had to take a shot before therapy.
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Chapter 4: How does Lee explain the dynamics of narcissistic relationships?
So I'm like, you have to let it out. Any type of emotions you stifle, even the good ones, if you don't find a healthy way to let them out, they're going to die and they're going to come out as rage. They're going to come out as anger. They're going to come out as resentment or something like that. So that was a big thing for me is to find ways to just release my emotions in a healthy way.
So I wasn't like attacking my partner, attacking my kids and stuff like that, because that's, you know,
a lot of people ask me like what's your biggest regret about therapy yeah before therapy and because i you know i'm 40 now but my oldest son is 17 i've been in therapy for nine years so he got the first eight years of his life he got the uh the untherapized i don't even know the word like the unhealed version yeah the unhealed version of me he got the brunt of that for his first eight nine years of life you know i have a nine-year-old son too
He's kind of grown up with me through my therapy journey. He's kind of seen the rage and anger and stuff like that progressively through the years until I really started getting serious. But I have a five-year-old daughter, and she don't know none of that.
Right. She just has a completely different version of you.
She don't know none of that. You know your dad. My wife, sometimes she gets angry. My daughter be doing something. She's like, I'm going to get your dad to yell at you.
I don't do that anymore. What? Why do you think that at the time that your wife left you for the second time that you decided to go tell the truth to your therapist instead of sort of flipping the script and kind of putting the blame on your wife?
Um, because like, I think the biggest thing about that was like when I went to therapy and I, it's kind of like therapy part two, right? Cause the first two and a half years I was in therapy, but I wasn't being a hundred percent honest. So therapy part two was me.
Like she told me, she's like, if you really want to put the work in, first of all, you have to be a hundred percent honest, but you also have to find a way to forgive yourself. And I was just like, ooh, how do you do that, right? How do you forgive yourself for all the stuff you've been doing for years, even before this relationship, for years before this? How do you forgive yourself for that?
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Chapter 5: What does it mean to be a narcissist in relationships?
I think I have BPD also.
No, so I'm glad you said that because 100%, when I was watching, I watched a bunch of podcasts, right? I actually watched the one you had with Lala. She shared one when I was saying it years ago. I was like, yay. I watched Vanderpump Rules because my wife was like, it's like one of them guilty pleasures. I was like, ugh.
So she had me on her podcast.
I was like, what's Jax doing? Jax is in some shit to get in there. So I saw you talking to her and whatnot. And I just heard your story. And I was like, I bet. And I was just like, I bet Kel probably thinks she's a narcissist. I do. Just like the stuff that you were saying. And I'm pretty sure some of your exes probably think you're a narcissist too.
But I don't think you don't have the energy to be a narcissist, right? Yeah.
What is the energy?
Are you sure? Can you analyze me, please? Let me feel it. Because when I see your story, there's certain cues you do when I hear you talking about your story that I can tell that affects you. Your relationship with your mom definitely affects you. You probably heard this before. I feel like sometimes you might be overcompensating with your own kids. 1,000%. I didn't have this.
I'm going to do this to my kids. Which is it? Which is a gracious thing to do. That's what you feel like you need to do right there for makeup and stuff. But I don't think you're narcissistic. I feel like you just don't have the, like, could you be more like lean towards like borderline? Yeah. Borderline personality disorder? Traits, right? But it's like more towards those traits, right?
Because when I heard you talking about falling in love, I seen you light up. And he's like, I fall in love quickly. I'm like, oh, there it is. You know?
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Chapter 6: How can childhood trauma affect narcissistic behavior?
You have too much empathy to be a narcissist. I just like, yeah, because you have narcissistic traits sometimes and express them differently in certain ways. Yeah, absolutely. Because you're human, right? You go in self-defense mode. When you feel attacked, you go in self-defense mode.
But I feel like just based on your history, your relationship with your mom, your dad passing away, all the other stuff that I was listening to.
You did your homework?
I was listening. I had a long drive. I was listening.
Thank you, Lee.
You know what I mean? I was listening. And my wife was telling me stuff, too. I was just like, you need to know this. And I was like, oh, okay, cool.
We love a supportive wife.
We love that. Because I was listening to some people who don't like you, right? So I was kind of getting both sides of it right. Oh, my God. There's people who don't like you.
They do not fuck with me.
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Chapter 7: What role does empathy play in narcissism?
If I went to therapy and said that I think I have ADHD, they would have had me working on that instead of what I actually have, right? So I feel like getting a diagnosis sometimes can feel like a hindrance. Like if I have this diagnosis, people are going to attack me for it. That's how I felt, right?
Yeah.
I was like, you can't attack me for something I'm working on. I'm active. People come on comment sections like, you're a nurse.
I know.
It's in my bio. I said that you wouldn't know that if I didn't tell you that. And like, And most people attack them because, like, you're trying to shame somebody who's working, who's in active recovery. Like, he's trying to help people. He's doing this. Like, what do you get from trying to shame this person? And when I saw your story and the trauma, I think your mom was a narcissist. Yes.
When I heard that, I was like, ooh, disappearing from weeks at a time and months. I feel like because you felt so unloved, you seek love sometimes, right? You seek it. And then when you, like, get betrayed, you're like...
What do you do?
You move. That's how your mind works. 100%. There's nothing wrong with it. BPD people or whatever, borderline people, can be very, very good people. They just love too hard.
I don't know enough about BPD. Are you able?
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Chapter 8: How can someone help a narcissist on their healing journey?
Yeah. I don't think you're narcissistic. Could there be some stuff going on there? Because narcissism and BPD are both close to be personality disorders. There could be some stuff right there that entangle and make you feel that way. But I just don't think you're narcissistic. Even from looking at the videos, I would have known. That's why I was watching these videos on the way up here.
I was like... And then you told your story about your mom. You're like, my mom. And you're laughing when you're telling this story because that's a trauma response. You're like, my mom, she was just disappeared for weeks. I'm like.
You just laughed through the pain.
You know what I mean? I'll just go to anybody's house who will want me. I was like. I was like, let me put on some Usher real quick, a palate cleanser.
Hold on, I need a palate cleanser.
I need a palate cleanser because it's trauma. You know, I know childhood trauma. I know that. But the thing about childhood trauma, it doesn't stop, right? Yeah. You can have trauma as a childhood, but then like you don't stop with your childhood, like adult trauma. Sometimes it just piles up, right? And if you don't work through it, it just keeps piling up and piling up and piling up.
I can tell you love your kids. Like when I was listening to yourself, I was like, oh, she loves her children. 100%, you love your kids, which most narcissists don't, right? They just like, they love their kids, but it's just, it's situational, right? It's a situational thing. It's just like, it has to serve me to love you. You know, I need something from this, right?
If my daughter was famous, then I'd be like, let's make a famous baby. You know what I mean? That's when you see the dance moms.
My mom, there was, I always say I didn't really have a baby shower, but I guess I kind of had one with my first son. And it was at Joe's house, his grandparents' house. And my mom whispered in my ear, save my gift for last. I want you to open it last so everyone can see what I got you.
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