Robert concludes the story of T.E. Lawrence by getting into the real bastardry of his life, including a pretty heinous war crime!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Chapter 1: What heinous acts did T.E. Lawrence commit during the war?
What's murdering 75 men in hand-to-hand combat? Margaret, have you killed 75 men in hand-to-hand combat?
I've been told to not comment on this until I'm more certain about a few steps.
I would fucking follow you into war so fast. I'd be like, yes. Yes, boss. Where are we going? To me, Let me grab my axe.
Let's go.
That's going to be conditional for me on what kinds of men you count when you're killing, right? Like, Oda didn't count Turks. Do you count Turks if you kill them in hand-to-hand combat? These are the questions that I need to know. Yeah, no, chuds are the ones that are not certain count. You don't count? No chuds, yeah.
Yeah, no, I refer to my truck as a chud truck, and people think I refer to it as a chud truck because it looks like a truck a chud would drive, but actually it's just very good at...
Anyway.
Oh, I would have been a truck guy. I think we can all agree on that. Yes.
It's a shame that none of these people live long enough to see the Hilux.
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Chapter 2: How did Lawrence's actions reflect on his mental state?
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After a crime, you read the headlines, but do you know the story?
At the time that I called the police, he knew I had called him and left the house with a firearm and was texting me that he was going to use it.
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So when we discuss T.E. Lawrence while sitting in our computers in the fall of 2024, one thing probably stands... What? That wasn't even a joke.
I know, but so funny.
Yeah. One thing stands above every other matter, which is his support for the Balfour Declaration, particularly his support. I mean, because that was not made. He did not help make that. But he is he he is a supporter of Zionism in this particularly postwar period. When all of these European powers give their official support for a Jewish homeland in Palestine.
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Chapter 3: What was the significance of the Balfour Declaration?
That's kind of how I read it is the idea, but it's not a two-state solution. They are always referring to Palestine, right? They don't call it Judea or Israel, but yeah.
To the one-state solution, the one secular, you can be Jewish or-
Yeah. Yeah. That is the closest thing. Right. Like the arrangement that they are talking to when I say that, like he supported Zionism, the the actual text of the kind of thing he was trying to set up is very different than what exists today.
Right.
I'm going to quote again from that agreement. All necessary measures shall be taken to encourage and stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land through closer settlement and intensive cultivation of the soil.
In taking such measures, the Arab peasant and tenant farmers shall be protected in their rights and shall be assisted in forwarding their economic development. It goes on to state that no interference and free exercise of religion would be permitted. And the Mohammedan holy places in Jerusalem and elsewhere shall be under Mohammedan control. Okay.
I mean, it's presenting a fairly reasonable idea. I mean, obviously, that's clearly not what large-scale Jewish immigration meant.
It's not what's going to happen. But when we say that he's a Zionist, he's not supporting what exists currently, right? That is the result, and it's worthy of criticism. Faisal is worthy of criticism, too. And it's important to note that Faisal, this guy seeking to be the king of this Arabic state, is supportive of this measure, right? There's some economic reasons for it, yeah.
At the very beginning where he's like, you know, the longstanding appreciation between Arab and Jewish folks. I mean, that is real. Yeah, yeah. There is like, you know, when you study Ottoman Empire before it started falling apart, it's like, well, that's where European Jews went because they were like second class citizens in the Ottoman Empire, but like,
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Chapter 4: How did Lawrence's legacy impact the Arab world?
Chapter 5: What role did Zionism play in Lawrence's life?
That's where that all gets started. Now, the fact that this is the result, right? You know, it's not a total failure. You do have Arab states that are independent, you know, that come out as a result of this. But largely, you know, during his lifetime, it's France and Britain kind of calling the shots in a large lot of this region. This shatters Lawrence, right?
He never really recovers from his failure here. And you know who else has never recovered from their failures? Is it the casinos? Yeah, the casinos, they're a failure to give you too much money, right? Yeah. You know, they just can't wait to give you money.
No, they lose money more often than they win. That's why gambling, if you gamble enough, you always win. The house always loses. That's why they say that.
Yeah, exactly. The house always loses. It's always safe, always safe to gamble. Keep your money in a casino, right? It's an investment.
I mean, if it's controlled by the casino, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. They will succeed.
I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all his wife Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community.
She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing.
No. How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done?
You're unable to keep track of all your lies. And quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future.
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Chapter 6: How did Lawrence's experiences shape his views on war?
Now, I want to refer back to that article in the Smithsonian Magazine, because later in that article, Sheikh Al-Atun says this. Some people think he was really trying to help the Arabs, but others think it was all a trick, that Lawrence was actually working for the British Empire all along. When I press for his opinion, the Sheikh grows slightly discomfited. May I speak frankly?
Maybe some of the very old ones still believe he was a friend of the Arabs, but almost everyone else, we know the truth. Even my grandfather, before he died, he believed he had been tricked. And that's a common attitude towards Lawrence over there. Now, it's not universal.
His old friend, Emir Faisal, who became king of Iraq, said in 1920 that Lawrence had been truthful in his promises, a matter that made the Arabs trust him. But a lot of people dislike Faisal, right? You know?
I mean, this gets into the, like, Why I believe so strongly in honesty is that, well, to the people that you're working alongside of, is that you set yourself up for that when you lie to people. Even if you're trying to, like his paternalism in the end makes people realize that he was fucking them over. Because he didn't treat them as equals and make decisions alongside of them. Yeah.
Cause they might've reached the same conclusions. They might've been like, well, cynically, I guess we should side with the British because dynamite and British gold will accomplish everything, you know?
Yep. And there's a lot of like, you could, you could argue part, maybe part of why Faisal is, you know, so positive, uh, towards Lawrence is that like, you know, Lawrence is kind of honest with Faisal in a way that maybe he isn't to a lot of these other people, right? These different, because a lot of these, a lot of these Arab tribes that he was getting in line behind the rebellion were
Weren't super pro Faisal, but they were like, well, but we hate the Ottomans and he's saying it'll work out better. Maybe we'll just like give it a shot. The rebellion seems to be working pretty well. And then they wind up being like, oh, well, we just kind of got fucked on this. Right. We sent our sons to die and this asshole became a king. But like, what did we get? Right. Yeah. Yeah.
So after his brief stint with Churchill, Lawrence changed his name and asked to be allowed to reenlist in the British military, this time as a private. He told a friend that he never wanted to be responsible for anyone or anything significant again for the rest of his life. Like, this is how broken he is that he's like, I don't want any of this fame.
I am not going to I'm going to take a new name and reenlist as a private. So I just don't have to do anything but follow orders for the rest of my life. Yeah. Kill and die. That's kill and die.
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