Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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1969, Malcolm and Martin are gone. America is in crisis. And at Morehouse College, the students make their move. These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson, locked up the members of the Board of Trustees, including Martin Luther King Sr.
It's the true story of protest and rebellion in Black American history that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. Listen to The A Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Over the last couple years, didn't we learn that the folding chair was invented by Black people because of what happened in Alabama? This Black History Month, the podcast Selective Ignorance with Mandi B unpacks Black history and culture with comedy, clarity, and conversations that shake the status quo.
The Crown Act in New York was signed in July of 2019, and that is a bill that was passed to prohibit discrimination based on hairstyles associated with race. To hear this and more, listen to Selective Ignorance with Mandy B from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Bowen Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers.
During this season of the Two Guys, Five Rings podcast, in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bow!
Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt. Hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi.
Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears.
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Chapter 2: What shocking discovery does Saskia make about Mike?
So she opened up Mike's computer. If he wasn't going to come out with the information, she'd look at the website herself. She found her way to Chatterbait and demanded that Mike log in and walk her through it. The way he was explaining it to me was like explaining how to fold a fitted sheet or something. It was so detached from any emotion or any remorse.
And what he was describing went far deeper than calls with other women. He explained to me, see all these tokens? People pay me money to look at my stuff. Then I can use those tokens to look at other stuff. Mike wasn't just watching other people cam. He was performing. People were paying him for sexual content. I was in shock. I was in disbelief. I felt like I was on the Twilight Zone.
I think that's where he hoped it would end. Instead, Saskia took control of the computer. She started scrolling through the website, trying to make sense of it all. I was still trying to just take information in. That's when she saw it. The image that made her blood run cold. I remember looking and I saw a picture and I was like, that's my underwear.
The image she'd seen the night before on his computer screen was now right in front of her, in focus. And it was posted publicly under Mike's profile. I said, is that me? And he said, yes, that's you.
Welcome to the A Building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. have both been assassinated, and Black America is at a breaking point. Rioting and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia, at Martin's alma mater, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest.
It featured two prominent figures in Black history, Martin Luther King Sr. and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. to be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people were dying.
1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago.
This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind.
Listen to The A Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Chapter 3: How does Saskia react to finding Mike's Chatterbait account?
Her mind went to Marisa, but her sister was busy with her kids. So Saskia called her brother-in-law, Ronnie. And I said, I really need you to come over, please. Ronnie couldn't be interviewed for this story. He passed away in 2022. Saskia remembers it was a relief to have Ronnie there. He was twice Mike's size. Mike wouldn't do anything with him around.
Immediately, Ronnie tried to diffuse the situation. He came over and he was like, what's going on, guys? But before Saskia could share what she'd just seen, Mike took control. He pulled Ronnie aside. He tried to explain. You know, guys look at porn, right? It seemed like Ronnie was buying Mike's story. That this was no big deal. Saskia had to get him to understand the gravity of the situation.
This wasn't about Mike looking at porn or even talking to other women. He was using me, and I knew nothing about that. Mike posted a naked photo of her online, a photo from when she wasn't awake. As she spoke, she watched Ronnie realize this wasn't right. He understood. He was on her side. And he made it clear Mike needed to leave the house right away. Mike looked terrified.
I said, what are you so upset about? What are you so scared of? Like, you did this. And he said, I'm afraid of losing all this. Like his stuff in his house. It was so strange and so unbelievable. Mike was already worrying about dividing up their things. He seemed sure their life together was over. All because of one photo. Saskia just needed Mike out. And eventually, he agreed.
Ronnie stayed by her side as Mike began packing a bag. He... said he would leave and go to a hotel. I said, you're not coming back here until I say it's okay. And if you do everything that I ask you to do, I won't call the police. He acted like he was leaving, but then he came back up the stairs and told me he needed the laptop twice.
So the second time he did that, I actually did start to call the police and he ran out. Finally, Mike was gone. And as soon as he drove away, Saskia and Ronnie went back to the laptop. They had to know what else Mike was trying to hide on this website and if he'd posted any other photos of Saskia. We sat at my little kitchen island. Ronnie did a search and he said, you're not going to be happy.
And that's when I saw a ton of images of What she saw on Chatterbait, it wasn't just the one photo. It wasn't even 10 or 20 photos. There were dozens. They were all of me, naked, without clothing. When she'd first seen the website that morning, she'd been groggy. Her sleeping meds were still wearing off. But it was the afternoon now. She was more alert.
And now she realized that the photos Mike had taken of her weren't really photos at all. They were thumbnails of videos. Videos that had been live streamed on Mike's page. The image she'd seen earlier, it was just a preview. A thumbnail showing one of Mike's past live streams.
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Chapter 4: What evidence does Saskia gather against Mike?
The word 1600 followers now made sense. Mike had been videotaping her while she was completely undressed, broadcasting it to thousands of strangers on the internet. And seeing these thumbnails on Mike's profile, she could tell he'd done this many, many times.
You don't see my face in most of them, but you see his face and just the look on that face was just so painful for me to see who he really was. After he went to sleep, he turned their bedroom into a set. She recognized her walls, her sheets. But looking at the body in those images, it was like seeing someone else. It was her underwear, her tattoos.
And yet, she had no memory of any of these videos being taken. All those nights she'd been knocked out. All those nights she thought she'd been sleeping soundly next to the man she loved. Her body was there, in bed, living a nightmare. I was terrified because I knew my life would never be the same. I knew I would never be the same. I knew my family would never be the same.
I was just terrified, like, what am I going to find out? There was a video behind each of these images. But the videos had only been live. They weren't accessible anymore on the site. She wanted a fuller picture of what Mike was doing to her while he was streaming. Just as her brother-in-law was about to dig deeper to see if there was any way to access past streams.
Ronnie couldn't get access anymore. He was like, oh, this stuff's not there. Suddenly, the thumbnails of Saskia, the only proof they had of what Mike had done, began disappearing from Chatterbait right before their eyes. Mike was deleting the evidence. And that's when I started freaking out. Because I knew then he was going to try to get away with this.
Within a matter of minutes, there was only one thumbnail remaining. But that wasn't going to stop her. Uploading nude videos of her had to be a crime. And Mike needed to be held accountable. So I did call the police. And two officers came and I... showed them one of the pictures that was still there. One police officer said, well, how do we know that these are his pictures?
And made me feel like I was in the wrong. Saskia didn't feel like the cops took her seriously. To them, this was a routine domestic issue, and the one picture wasn't enough to convince them otherwise. She pleaded with them, but... They basically told me to file for a protective order and then to get the locks changed. So the police left, and Saskia was at a loss. Then she felt her phone buzz.
She looked at the screen and her stomach dropped. It was Mike. He texted her from his hotel.
Let me just tell you more about the site. I have had access for years but did not do anything with us until more recent.
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Chapter 5: How does Mike respond to Saskia's confrontation?
And the videos themselves were only shown live. They weren't accessible on Chatterbait after they aired. With only that one thumbnail, Saskia might be able to get a temporary protective order for a few days. But there wasn't enough evidence to secure a longer-term protective order. Saskia thought, Mike recorded the videos on this computer.
Surely there would be copies of the videos stored somewhere on the laptop. Megan recalls Saskia pleading with the authorities. She was like, his computer has all the videos on it. And they were like, we can't do the computer without a search warrant. We can't get a search warrant without video evidence. We need video evidence. You have to produce videos. It was a catch-22. They were stuck.
Of course, I was devastated, and I completely lost it and started running around. Colleen went after her. She let out this blood-curdling scream and ran down the hall. And the Family Justice Center is co-located with the sheriffs just because of the high risk of domestic violence, and the sheriffs came sprinting. They didn't know what had happened.
They just heard this scream and came sprinting down after her. She was just in shock, like, what is going on? I think the magnitude hit her at that moment. I just flipped out because of how wrong I knew it was and how traumatized I felt. While Colleen tried to calm Saskia down in the hall, Megan remained in the room with the social worker. She was determined to find evidence against Mike.
Even though Chatterbait doesn't save the live videos and Mike had deleted most of the evidence of prior streams, there had to be videos out there. Nothing goes away on the internet. Once it's there, it's there. So I just searched my phone. Because luckily, thank God, that idiot gave her his username. Saskia saw Mike's username earlier that morning. So Megan searched and searched.
She found Mike's username listed on other porn sites, but she kept running into the same issue. All I could get were pictures. So I saw that these videos did exist somewhere on the internet, but the only things that I was getting were thumbnail pictures. Megan showed these additional images to the social worker, hoping that more photos would be enough to move ahead with the case.
She's like, that's not good enough. We need video. So I'm just like, okay, there's got to be video on here, like somewhere. So Megan continued to dig, and she found even more photos of Saskia. They were all over the internet. On the one hand, finding this content was a good thing. With every image, she became more sure that they could prove this.
On the other, these were photos that anyone could find. Her friend's image was blasted without her consent across pornography websites. The amount of stuff I found online with her in it, it was tragic. In our interview, Megan went on to share what she saw. And I'll just say this. These images exposed the most intimate parts of Saskia's body. It was deep, dark searching.
Like, I searched for a long time. Luckily, there's a website that rips footage from live streams and from cams. Bots sometimes enter the streams and record them for exploitation on other sites. And they'll give you 10-second grabs of the videos so that you can pay for the full video. So I found those. She located four of these video previews. Megan's known Saskia since she was five years old.
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Chapter 6: What actions does Saskia take after learning the truth?
And special thanks to Will Pearson and Carrie Lieberman. Betrayal's theme is composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by Myb Music. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts.
1969, Malcolm and Martin are gone. America is in crisis. And at Morehouse College, the students make their move. These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson, locked up the members of the Board of Trustees, including Martin Luther King Sr.
It's the true story of protest and rebellion in Black American history that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. Listen to The A Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Over the last couple years, didn't we learn that the folding chair was invented by black people because of what happened in Alabama? This Black History Month, the podcast Selective Ignorance with Mandi B unpacks black history and culture with comedy, clarity, and conversations that shake the status quo.
The Crown Act in New York was signed in July of 2019, and that is a bill that was passed to prohibit discrimination based on hairstyles associated with race. To hear this and more, listen to Selective Ignorance with Mandy B from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Bowen Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers.
During this season of the Two Guys, Five Rings podcast, in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends.
Hi!
Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt. Hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi.
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