Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the premise of the podcast 'Never Have I Ever'?
Hi, I hope you've been enjoying your Clare Byrne Show podcast this week. If you've liked what you've heard here, you might also be interested in my brand new podcast, Never Have I Ever. The series launched earlier this week and my first guest was psychologist and author Katrina O'Sullivan. Take a listen.
A lot of people don't want to write a book. They want to be seen and heard. So this is you telling me you have imposter syndrome? Yes. There was no way that the joyrider was going to want to go out with me if he thought that I was a bookish girl. I just don't think we can do it all.
No, it's really hard. We haven't come very far, have we? No, no. Never have I ever. Never have I ever. Never have I ever. Never have I ever.
Never.
There are certain things people talk about doing all of the time. Running a marathon, learning Spanish, taking up the guitar. And writing a book is definitely one of them because people are forever saying, my family are mad, there's a book in them or the things I've seen. Honestly, somebody should write them down.
But when you really think about it, writing a book is actually a very strange thing to do. You're not just writing stories. You're deciding what to reveal, what to leave out, what belongs to you and what you're comfortable handing over to other people. And I think that's the bit that just might stop me giving it a go. Just the raw honesty of it.
It's putting the people that you love and yourself, of course, under that kind of spotlight. So this is Never Have I Ever. It's a brand new podcast from Newstalk where I admit to something that I've never done and I meet somebody who has done that thing. So this week, Never Have I Ever written a book.
But Katrina O'Sullivan has more than one, in fact, and they are massive bestsellers, hugely successful. And Katrina, you are very welcome to Never Have I Ever. Thank you for having me. This is exciting. You're my first guest. Yes. Never Have I Ever hosted a podcast. Oh, wow. And here we are.
Whenever have I ever been on your podcast before? There you go.
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Chapter 2: How does Katriona O'Sullivan redefine the concept of being an author?
The idea of being literary feels a little bit beyond my capacity right now. You know, there's people that just live in that space and they don't necessarily sell a lot of books. They win prizes. Maybe they don't sell books. Or a lot of books like I have. So they would look at me and say, oh, my God, she sold, you know, thousands and thousands of books. She's amazing.
Yeah. But just, you know, if you're writing popular fiction, there is a snobbishness about that as well. Yeah. So Sheila O'Flanagan, who I first interviewed, I'd say 25 years ago, and we had this conversation about chick lit and how it's seen in literature and in the publishing world.
And I just look at that and I go, do you mean the books that I really like to read when I want to relax, that I really enjoy, that feel like a holiday for my brain? Because I am there for that.
Yes, exactly. So Patricia Scanlon was like my idol when I was younger. Like she wrote women's books, chick lit books. But my thing is read what you like at the end of the day. Read what you like and enjoy what it is that you like. We shouldn't be judging people.
But it is very much the case when you're in the writing world that that happens and you hear the conversation, especially at book festivals. But you hear it and you also hear writers talk about themselves in that way. Like I went to Anna McCarrick recently, which is an artist's retreat. I've been there twice.
And I heard that like Marion Keys would never apply to go there because she doesn't feel that she would fit in there. That's not a place for someone like her. I'm like, she's one of our most best selling authors. People love her books. And yet she would judge herself in that in that level of where you fit in terms of being an artist. Yes.
And for me, I think if you're producing stories and they're accessible and enjoyable and people like them, then you're definitely an artist and a writer.
But you, in your academic career, you must have written in a completely different style. Yes. And so was it tough then to write in the way that you have done for the memoirs and then for fiction?
It was always tough for me to write academically. So like I'm extremely successful as an academic writer. There's judgment there as well. So we get ranked. So where you publish your books, there's rankings attached to it and them rankings are public to people. And so they have impact factors, which means how much people read them and the level of impact.
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Chapter 3: What challenges do women face in today's literary world?
But it's never like deeply sore. And I would always say to people, Do not think that you can go through the vulnerability of telling your story without actually having told yourself your story because that is really irresponsible. And I've actually seen bad practicing in publishing where someone is in the media because of some mad event that happened to them.
They might have had a sexual assault or they may have been an addict and a publisher will dive in and say, come tell your story. And that person is not ready because they haven't actually dealt with it. But because we're in a situation where we want to sell books, it's not very responsible for publishers to publish books where a person is not OK with their story.
So deal with your stuff. Yeah. And then write it down if you're ready.
Chapter 4: How does Katriona O'Sullivan's background influence her writing?
If you're ready.
Yeah.
you were always bookish weren't you despite everything that was going on the books were always a thing for you yeah always and I was always writing actually so today I went back through I have an old folder and I'd started like stories years ago and I was like oh my god that's actually pretty good I was quite proud of myself always bookish always interested in how to tell a story
Not necessarily just in the written form, but also verbally. So, yeah, I've always been really bookish.
I'm smiling because I remember you saying, I think I read it somewhere, that you loved Wuthering Heights. Yeah. But you were running around with this gang, like, and they were doing terrible things. And you said, I can't tell them, you know, that I'm reading Wuthering Heights because...
Yeah. The story is that I, Wuthering Heights and I loved Shakespeare. My English teacher was phenomenal and he made a Shakespeare so accessible and I remember getting it. I could understand the words because it feels like another language. I loved The Merchant of Venice and I remember reading this book and realizing that Shylock was the victim.
in the story and no one could see it in my class and i was like the injustice oh like i'm standing behind the bike shed smoking my bents and hedges you can't say things like to the gang do you think that shylock was the victim in the merchant of venice and why couldn't you say those things because i was terminally cool terminally cool
There was no way that the joyrider was going to want to go out with me if he thought that I was a bookish girl. And whether that's my judgment or the truth, I think it's a mixture of both. So my love of books was my secret. Like a lot of kids like secretly take drugs or secretly smoke. I secretly read. Wuthering Heights. Yeah, I was under the blankets like reading.
And like my best friend, like she would slag me. She was like, will you stop reading?
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Chapter 5: What is the importance of honesty in writing memoirs?
I'm talking about any book. Because that's what I might do if I ever do this. I might do fiction. I don't know what I'll do. I might never write a book. But listen, this is what we're going to do. So every week we're going to do this on this podcast, which we're just starting today. But we're going to do a bit of myth busting. We're going to do a bit of breaking down stereotypes and cliches.
This one, though, I want to be for people listening who might think that they have a book in them. So I want all of your tips and who might be just a bit afraid. Can anyone write a book?
Anyone can write a book, whether it is a book that other people want to read. I don't know.
Okay.
Not everyone can write a good book. You can write a book, but knowing how to tell a story and the things that have to go into a story, people need to learn that.
Is there such a thing as not educated enough to write?
I don't think so. I think there's so many ways. And I would push back on that a lot because of, obviously, where I come from. Actually, a lot of writers I know didn't go to university. Do you think you need to read to write? No. A lot of people I know who write don't read. Because it influences their stories.
For me, I think learning words and learning prose and structure and, you know, how conversation can be written about came from reading. So in my case, definitely, I think reading influenced my ability, but I don't think it's necessary. One book every woman should read. That's tough, isn't it? Oh, yeah. God, it's really, really hard.
I suppose Maya Angelou, Why the Caged Bird Sings is a phenomenal book. I also think The Body Keeps the Score is a fantastic book. It's psychology, but it also really explains trauma a lot. I think Poor is an amazing book for people to read and learn, especially women. I mean, I love Elaine Feeney's work. She wrote a book called As You Were.
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Chapter 6: How does the conversation shift towards societal expectations of women?
And also then the other thing is, is that when does it end? Like when does it end? I was listening to Emma Thompson the other day. Did you see her interview? And she was like, yeah, it was really, it's really hard. But, like, all of us are being influenced, so... About ageing. Yeah, about ageing. Yeah, what's wrong with getting older?
Who says it's not sexy to be old, like, you know, and wrinkled and... Well, the other thing is, there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Yeah, but there is things you can do.
Well, yeah, but, like... I suppose you can look as well as you want or what you perceive to be well. That's fine. But you can't think that at 50 you're going to look 30 because you're not.
I know.
You're going to look like someone who is 50, who's had Botox and fillers and everybody's going to know that.
I know. That's the thing that really, I get really like, oh God, and I don't want to offend people listening, but the... I'm like, what are you saying? What does that say to the world? So if I present to you with like fillers and Botox and I get my face lifted and everything else, I'm actually actively telling you that I'm not okay with myself.
I'm actually saying, I think I'm saying I'm not strong enough to say no to to the influence that's being put on me by the world that's saying it's not okay to age so i'm showing you my weakness first up in some ways yeah yeah that makes sense i think so and i'm not judging i aren't i really am not because i've done loads of things i brought a red mask
i've put it on i you know i i haven't gone there yet with the red mask but i do find myself slowing down when i walk past them and yeah uh well i they i read the science they don't work but i still bought one because vogue williams is amazing at influencing us like she's like the best influencer online i'm so influenceable are you like yeah i am i am i'll
I think we all are psychologically like it's a thing do you know that lip gloss that goes on dark purple oh my god I bought that last week does it work it's really drying so I feel like when you wipe it off yes like my lips are not my lips I don't like I don't like it but the colour does stay I don't know where you get it from even so I have I have seen it and I wanted one I saw it on the Aer Lingus flight the other day go on Instagram for 10 minutes yeah
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