Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
The Clare Byrne Show on Newstalk. With Aviva Insurance.
childcare costs are four times more expensive here than they are in Germany. Many parents say it equates to a second mortgage. Daniel Ennis, Social Democrats Councillor for Dublin North Inner City, is calling for the issue of costs to be tackled by the government, saying it's a financial burden that many can't afford. And I'll speak to Daniel in just a moment.
But first, I want to hear what the childcare system is like in Germany. So let's go to Hamburg and to Rob Hyde, who's a freelance journalist living near the city, who is on the line. Good morning, Rob.
Chapter 2: Why are childcare costs in Ireland compared to a second mortgage?
Good morning.
So we're very interested to hear how the childcare system works in Germany. Can you explain it to us?
Yeah, sure. I think the main difference between Germany and Ireland on this front is that Germany's childcare system is mainly funded and organised by the state. And so the benefit for parents is that it keeps costs much lower for Whereas in Ireland, if I understand it rightly, there's more reliance on private providers.
And in fairness to that system, it does make childcare, I think, more widely available than Germany, but often more expensive.
So there's a problem as well, is there, in Germany with accessing places?
There really is. I mean, you know, Germany's got the 16 federal states and the thing is, each local authority uses its own rules based on income, hours of care, age of the child, and all this leads to a kind of patchwork system of wildly differing rates. That being said, as you said in your introduction, I think if you compare what the parents have to pay
things still look an awful lot better in Germany. So if it's a very low income or a zero income family, the state pays everything. If it's a low income household, so sort of earning under €30,000, they pay up to €200 per month. If it's middle income, so if you're earning €30,000 to €70,000, you pay around €300 to €400 a month.
And then higher income, so 70,000 upwards, you're paying sort of 400 to 600 euros a month, depending on the city.
OK, but 600 or thereabouts is the upper limit.
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Chapter 3: How does the childcare system in Germany differ from Ireland?
Absolute upper limit. That's right.
So who pays the wages then of the workers in the childcare facilities, Robb?
That's the state. The state pays for the facility and for the staff. The only thing which parents really would have to pay as an additional cost would be for meals. But then again, it really depends where you are. So in Berlin, for example, Berlin's got free childcare. And parents only have to pay a small monthly amount for meals, about 23 euros.
And you've also got the federal state of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern that's in the in the northeast. And therefore, under three year olds, it's also totally free apart from paying for meals.
And I have a listener who wants to know what age do the children go to play school or preschool and what age do they start school?
Well, so primary school is six starting then. But in terms of everything before that, it's similar to Ireland.
And so the childcare kicks in, the state and subvention kicks in as soon as the parents decide that they want to go back to work. So the child could be what, six, nine months old, maybe 12 months old?
Yes. The only problem is Germany being such a sort of intensely bureaucratic country, it means that the mechanics of everything moves very slowly. And so you get very long waiting lists and people tend to apply sometimes two years in advance or even before the child is born.
um and i i think that really is what one of the key problems in the system and there are some some significant problems with the german system so the the biggest one has to be the shortage of child care places so on the one hand you've got this fantastic rule from 2013 which says um everyone has a legal right uh to child care so starting age one
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Chapter 4: What are the financial implications of childcare in Germany?
But at the same time, in Western Germany, there's basically a critical shortage of places because demand is higher than supply. And then in Eastern Germany, you've got quite a strange situation whereby they're just not having enough children. And as a result, the nursing facilities are then closing. So it really is incredibly varied across the country.
Rob, thank you very much for explaining it to us. Rob Hyde there, freelance journalist living in Germany. And I'm joined now by Daniel Ennis, a Social Democrats councillor in Dublin's north inner city. And Daniel, you say that this is coming up on the doors, is it?
Yeah, good morning Clare and thanks for having me on to talk about such a crucial issue and a vital issue for families right across Dublin Central and across the country. But this is coming up on every second door as much as the housing crisis coming up and wrapped into the cost of living. Look, it's something that I have a lot of lived experience on, Clare.
I'm one of those parents that's paying the second mortgage. I'm one of those parents that was lucky to even get into that position to get a childcare place for my young daughter. And look, it's really putting a strain on my family and families right across the constituency.
And Clare, there's that piece as well, like the guilt of a parent, you know, so how many parents are not reaching out to us about this? I took to social media on this only recently and the amount of DMs I'm getting from people right across the country that are really struggling and haven't spoke out on this. And even one parent said to me, sure, Daniel, don't you just struggle to get by?
Because it's only for a few years, but we shouldn't be doing that, Clare. Like we simply shouldn't be doing that.
And what sort of costs are people telling you about?
Oh, well, look, I've done my own bit of research on it, and the average we're paying across Ireland is €850. Like, so many people are telling me that it's well above that, that they're paying. And I know I'm not doing the numbers, but I'm paying above that.
Yeah, I mean, that's probably a good amount to be paying. You know, I mean, and it seems bizarre to say that, but there are so many people who are paying up and around €1,000 per child for the first child.
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Chapter 5: What challenges do parents face in accessing childcare in Germany?
is hitting women, as we know, low-income parents and low-income families. Everyone deserves the right to equal opportunities to childcare and our government are not providing that amount.
Okay, what would you do about it?
Well, I think we need to implement immediately a public model of childcare and with the Social Democrats we're proposing partial care. Look, it works, it's costed, it works for children, parents and early years educators, everyone involved in the system. Straight away, we need to implement a cross-party Oireachtas Committee task with laying out the short, medium and long term.
This is not just an issue in Dublin Central, it's an issue right across Ireland. And I think that Oireachtas Committee, the dedicated joint Oireachtas Committee, devised Sinatra Care in the same way I think we should provide a roadmap for parts of care and how we deliver this.
Well, we had the Tánaiste Minister for Finance, Simon Harrison, here about an hour ago and I asked him about this because he did make the promise that childcare would be €200 per child in the run-up to the last election. Here's what he had to say.
I've said what I've said in relation to the 200 euro per child per month. That's not just my commitment. That's a commitment to the government of Ireland to get there during the lifetime. I think that means making progress in each of the next four budgets, right? That's my view. But we also alongside that have to make progress on capacity.
And that's why this year we did for the very first time put in place capital funding to invest in public buildings. We can't leave this to the market alone. What I am saying is childcare will be a priority in the budget. And there's a clear view right across government in relation to that. I would hope we can make progress towards that in the budget in October.
But the commitment is €200 per child per month in the lifetime of the government.
So he's saying it will happen.
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