The career of a Supreme Court Judge

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The Claire Byrne Show 13 min 2 speakers 7 chapters transcribed 2 hours ago

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How did Marie Baker decide to retire and what does retirement look like for a former Supreme Court judge?

Claire Byrne 0:01

The Clare Byrne Show on Newstalk. With Aviva Insurance.

Clare Byrne 0:09

Well, I'm joined in the studio now by former Supreme Court Judge Marie Baker. You're very welcome.

Marie Baker 0:14

Thank you very much, Clare.

Clare Byrne 0:15

Former Supreme Court judge, of course, retired now.

Marie Baker 0:17

Retired two and a half years or so. So how's

Clare Byrne 0:19

retirement been? I mean, great, really.

Marie Baker 0:24

You know, I wasn't sure I wanted to retire. I really liked the work. I really liked the engagement. It was very hard work, but my mind was stretched every day. But I am the chair of the Electoral Commission, so I'm not exactly sitting around painting my nails anymore. But I'm having a very good time. I suppose a retired judge gets asked to do a lot of things like law is really part of everybody's life. It is. And people are very interested. They're interested in the story about the terrible murder, but they're also interested in what happens when a contract is breached or fined. you know, marriage breakdown or whatever. So the law is there in people's lives all the time. So I get asked to do things. I chair conferences.

Marie Baker 1:05

I chair a lot of environmental law conferences just by fluke, really. I know people who organise them in UCC. And I'm chair, I'm participating in a very nice event. It's a full weekend festival in Kilkenny next week.

Clare Byrne 1:20

The

Marie Baker 1:20

Kilkenny Law Festival. This is the

Clare Byrne 1:22

first time this has ever been done. No, I think it actually is the second one.

Why does Marie still stay busy after retirement, especially as chair of the Electoral Commission?

Marie Baker 1:26

Oh, is this the second year of it? But correct me if I'm wrong. There you go. Well, I have a judge in the

Clare Byrne 1:30

room, so I'll take

Marie Baker 1:31

that as

Clare Byrne 1:31

read. No longer. I'm a private citizen now. Listen, talk to me a little bit about something that you said when you were retiring. You said that your background was a sign or an indication that the court is perhaps more representative than people might think.

Marie Baker 1:47

What did you mean by that? I do think that. I mean, two things. First of all, I'm a woman. And when I went to the bar... 40 something years ago now, there were very, very few women and there were certainly no women with good work. You know, there were very few women in the High Court doing the big cases. That's the first thing. The second thing is, you know, I come from very ordinary background. My father was a postmaster. He grew up in West Kerry. He left school before doing a leaving cert. My mother left school before doing a junior cert or an inter cert. And yet, education, opportunity, engagement with the world meant that I was able to do the work I did. And I was eventually appointed to the High Court and then up through the system.

Marie Baker 2:30

So, not everybody now was at... A private school, not everybody who's a judge was at a private school. I think you'll find that the numbers are very different from what they were even 10 years ago.

Clare Byrne 2:40

Do you think people have that impression, though, still, that it

Marie Baker 2:43

is an elitist world? Yes and no. I think people move along. I think if you see judges making...

How does Marie Baker view diversity and representation on the Irish Supreme Court?

Marie Baker 2:49

judges making comments in cases, people pick up on them. But most judges do what they do quietly in their own way and you write a judgment and you get on with it. And we're not public figures in the real sense. The most public court is the Supreme Court because it's responsible for the interpretation of the Constitution. So we have a bit more of a role where people observe what we do and what we say. But when I was in the Supreme Court, it was four women and five men. And we came from all backgrounds. Some of us were in private schools. Some of us hadn't been. In fact, I don't even know. about all of them. And I certainly didn't know their political affiliations. So it's not at all like America.

Clare Byrne 3:33

So when you were coming up through the ranks, did you feel that you were smashing through glass ceilings? Did you feel that you were

Marie Baker 3:38

trailblazing? It's easy to say in retrospect that I felt it. You know, the fact is that I often say I was just lucky. I was interested in the work and I came to the bar at a time where there were a lot of women solicitors who were looking for themselves breached those barriers. So they briefed women barristers. That's what happened to me. I ended up doing exactly what I thought I wouldn't do.